www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Eastern Apostolic Nuncio's???

Dear Alex:

Off-white will do.


AmdG

Oh I am so glad to see you having a laugh with me!

If I were to become a married Pope, St. Peter and I would have a lot more in common.

A nuncio? I don't know if I want to lose my faith!

Seriously, if that is where God wants me, I will go, but first I need to get through basic training, known as the seminary!

But in the event of such a future, it will be a black riasa and skufiya (cap) and a large three-bar pectorial cross accros my heart that will be my nuncial garb!

Now for the real scrutiny. What is the State which the Vatican Represents. It cannot be assumed to be a State like every other, except in a legal sense. If it represents a nation, it is the nation of Catholics world-wide right? I mean, aside from their own post office, the Vatican is more a state in the conceptual sense. There is no economy. Raw goods, Domestic Products? A population who votes for their leader in an election? By represetning the Vatican, you represent, ultimately the Catholic Church in the world and the Pope who is the head of the Whole Catholic Church. If we come to such an understanding of the nuciature, I would posit that it is an office that should be assumed by the Patriarch in another country, where there is an Eastern Catholic Patriarch/Major Archbishop. A latin nuncio in Ukriane representing Catholicism is not proper, since the overhwhleming majority of Catholics are not Latins, but Byzantine. And if he is representing the Vatican/Catholicism, a Byzantine is just as able to fill such a role, after all he is a CATHOLIC!

But I am still confused and think that what I write is not clear and full of contradicitons which a savvy Latin jurist could run circles around.

Personally, I think that the nuciature is an office that needs to be abolished.

"The hope of Christian unity cannot rest solely on the hope of doctrinal convergence. There must also be reforms within the Cahtolic Church, reforms the way the papal office is exercised and reform particularly of the Roman Curia and of curial policies and procedures."

Archbishop John R. Quinn The Reform of the Papacy

As an eastern Catholic, I do find the whole existence of the Apostolic Nuncio a bit offensive and unjust. I have seen how our Church, firsthand falls all over an AN, as if they should find something unagreeable, they would report to the Pope on us. I do not think that the AN is an office that is in the spirit of ecumenism and the restoration of Christian unity. Reform is needed.

ALity

Ality, you could do a black kamilavka also. Glad to see you're thinking down the right path on the pectoral cross. It is always nice to be able to distinguish a priest in public. If you ever became an archpriest you could wear the purple skufiya...

I don't know if the pro-nuncio gig would be worth it dealing with the extra politics, though...we probably already have enough in our parishes to go around... :rolleyes:

Dear Hieromonk Elias,
Thank you for your reply. The process for episcopal appointments does not vary much from country to country. The differences might be dictated by the size of the episcopal conference and whether there is any state interference in the nominating process. The best reference for this process can be found in Thomas Reese`s book "Archbishop" (pp. 1-52).

Peace,

Charles

Dear Ality,

Well, what about the Principality of Monaco and some other small nations/monarchies?

The Vatican City-State once held vast estates that cut right through the middle of Italy until successive Concordats reduced it to its current size.

Yes, it is at once the administrative centre for Catholics world-wide and an actual political entity. The Pope is its sovereign head and is so recognized by other states. Nuncios are his ambassadors to other countries and to the Catholic Church in those countries.

And yes, as Catholics we are all "citizens of the Vatican City-State" as we are "subjects of the Pope."

This administrative side to the running of the Vatican City-State will remain.

I agree that a Nuncio should keep an arm's length distance from the Eastern Catholic Churches in the country in which he is the Pope's ambassador, in deference to the Particular status of the Church and its people.

His role should ideally reflect that of the Pope himself with respect to the Eastern Churches - leaving their internal administrative matters to them alone, unless asked to intervene.

Alex

Alex,

You state: "And yes, as Catholics we are all 'citizens of the Vatican City-State'..."

I must point out this is incorrect. Citinzenship in the Vatican City State is limited to those clergy and laity who live permanently within the confines of its territory and the members of the Diplomatic Corps. To underscore that point try and get a coveted Vatican City passport, which is like an international all-access pass and only Vatican citizens can get it. The Vatican estimates its citizenship at about 1500.

Of course there is nothing stopping you from recognizing the Sovereign of the Vatican City State as your liege lord, my monarchist friend. In fact if you write the Pope proclaiming such maybe he will give you one of those cool Papal Knighthoods. Then you could be Sir Dr. Alex Roman, Knight of St. Gregory the Great or something like that.

In Christ,
Lance

Dear Lance,

Yes, of course direct citizenship is limited to the many Bishop-secretaries and others who work and live in Vatican City.

One of these is our former Apostolic Administrator who has recently become the parish priests of Sts. Sergius and Bacchus. We wish him well over there!

But we are brought into a special spiritual citizenship with the Vatican as Catholics. I remember attending a lecture by a Catholic history professor on this interesting topic.

As Catholics, we all owe allegiance, in monarchist fashion, , to the Pope.

There is not one aspect of the Papal style that is not in keeping with the best historic traditions of world monarchies. In fact, the Papacy sets the style in this department.

I'm just happy we no longer need to kiss the Cross on the sole of the Papal slipper when having an audience with him.

That was a bit much, don't you think?

I would love to be a papal knight! I already have a sword!

Alex