www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Help from the EP

Since we Uniates are children of a divorce, perhaps we can turn to the other parent for help?

A man really needs his father as he passes into adulthood. For the BCC it is time to grow up.

Perhaps the other parent, the Ecumenical Patriarch can help us?

EC is patriarchial. Perhaps one of our problems is that we don't have a patriarchiate. How can our EC function properly with a patriarchate?

I believe our lack of a patriarchial structure is one of the reasons why we are dying ... and so painfully so.

John,

To put it bluntly, I would not count on it. The parent you refer to would tell you to deal with the custodial parent, in this case Rome.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Remember that many of our brothers have already done something similar: The American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese.

Maybe see what they have to say? If we were united with them again, I think it would be a great benefit for the Carpatho-Russian/Ruthenian/Byzantine Church in America.

I hesitated before responding to this.
My fellow parishoners who remember the 1930s verify the saying of the day, "Neither to Rome nor to Moscow will we go...but to our mother", (Constantinople).

John,

Father is right. I would not look to the EP for assistance, unless it is to join ACROD!

As to the Patriarch situation, here is my observation:

1. If you read the history of Israel, you will see that their leaders (fathers) were often reflections of the spiritual state of the people. This kept the prophets employed for some time! So change the hearts and minds of the faithful, turn the hearts of fathers to their sons, and then see what happens.

2. What about the UGCC and Kiev? Patriarch Lubomyr could truly be a spiritual father to the Metropolia. Of course, that would mean that Rome needs to muster the courage to ask Moscow politely to mind its own business in these matters...a difficulty, apparently, for Moscow and for Rome. Sure the Metropolia would find it difficult, but, as the father of two sons who are as night and day different as night and day, we need to learn to live together.

3. Become a father yourself - both at home and at the altar - and change the world one diaper, one soul at a time!

My thoughts...

Gordo

I've thought about this too. Why not? Doesn't it make sense for the Ruthenians, Romanians and Ukrainians to unite and consolidate resources into a true Eastern Christian patriarchy?

Can our Pope come with us?

I second that notion!

They could be sharing resources now. If they can't do it now why will they be able to do this tomorrow. An indicator of future practice is past practice. So whats stopping all this sharing apart from vested interests? It sort of reminds me of St Augstine and that heretical Bishop that when he arrived was going to sort all and and explain all and when he arrived he was a disapointment.

Where's everyone been - about 4,900 posts ago Neil and I and I think the Admin as well bantered around the idea of two ritual patriarchates for all Greek Catholics worldwide, a Slavic of Kyiv and a Greek of Antioch. I guess good ideas can stay alive...and the basic ecclesiastical framework is already in place (or nearing that point).

I have two wonderful pictures on one wall from the time of Vatican II - one of Athenogoras and Pope Paul VI, and the other of an embrace between Patriarch Maximos IV Saigh and Patriarch Josyp. I think of both of those often, sometimes daily.

It would require a serious kenotic endeavor, full of metanoia. We would have to put some of the old baggage of xenophobia and past ethnic wounds aside to make it work. We may need to put our burning desires for hyperparticularity aside as well. But the rewards could be huge spiritually and ecclesiastically - and it would seem a Patriarchal church is not only traditional but a very sensible way to keep an authentic and intact Constantinopolitan patrimony.
FDD

That does sound like an interesting conversation -- do you happen to remember what the thread was called?

Even if such a wide-scale merging does occur, I think you'd end up with at least three particular churches for Greek Catholics. That is to say, I doubt that the Romanian Catholic Church would agree to a merger with the UGCC, especially now that they have major archepiscopal status.

On the other hand, I could see some of the other EC churches in Eastern Europe merging with the UGCC -- if they got a suitable quid pro quo. For example, I think it's just possible that the Eparchy of Mukacevo might do so if it meant they would be granted metropolitan status.

Then again, there's also the possibility of the Ruthenians merging with either the Slovak or Hungarian Church, or both (which would be a big step toward becoming a major archepicopal church themselves).

Of course, I'm just speculating here. I don't have any inside information about the intentions of any of these churches.

God bless,
Peter.

How about a single Byzantine sui iuris church in every country. Why take a step back when the Orthodox in America have autocepahly/autonomy and are working toward unity?

Fr. Deacon Lance

I think the step-back / step-forward question depends on which EC churches we're talking about.

I certainly think that a merger of all Greek Catholics in Eastern Europe into one church would be a step back (particularly for the Romanians).

On the other hand, the Slovak and Hungarian Churches, as well as the Ruthenian Eparchy of Mukacevo, are currently all suffragans of Rome; so I think that for them to merger into one major archepiscopal church could be viewed as a step forward -- notwithstanding the fact that it would involve sacrificing their current status of being three separate sui iuris churches.

In the final analysis, they would just have to weigh the two options and decide whether such a change would be better for their peoples. (Of course, we also don't know whether Rome would agree to it.)

Who's asking Rome?

In the immortal words of 'someone': "It is easier to obtain forgiveness than permission." :p

The Greek Catholic Diocese in Hungary is a suffragan See to the Primate of Hungary http://www.nccbuscc.org/aee/hungarydir.shtml