The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
BarsanuphiusFan, connorjack, Hookly, fslobodzian, ArchibaldHeidenr
6,170 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
2 members (KostaC, 1 invisible), 561 guests, and 120 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,521
Posts417,614
Members6,170
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 499
I
Member
Member
I Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 499
Do the EC's and EO's view all of the RC's Sacraments as valid ? If not which ones do and don't they validate ?

Dominus Vobiscum,
Brad

M'anam, mo chro�, mo ghl�ir, moladh duit a Dhia

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,132
Speaking for the OO (Oriental Orthodox), we recognize the validity of the Sacraments of the Latin Catholic Church.

However, my particular Church (the Coptic Church) while not denying the salvific quality of the Latin Sacraments, will repeat a Sacrament (if needed) for those entering our Church in order to complete what was lacking in form. Thus, we rebaptize those Catholics who wish to enter the Coptic Church who never had a triple immersion, but will not rebaptize those Catholics who have gone through triple immersion.

Blessings,
Marduk

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 196
Member
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 196
Brother Latin, fellow Celt,

Conas ata tu?

When my family and I were recieved into Orthodoxy, we were received by Chrismation only. This was the Antiochian church, I understand other jurisdictions have different ways. Our Catholic Sacramental validity was never questioned.

Bail o Dhia ort!
Aidan Michael

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,688
Moderator
Member
Moderator
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,688
From the Eastern Catholic perspective, the very fact that the Latin Catholic Church and the Eastern Catholic Churches are in communion with each other speaks to the acknowledgement of the validity of each Churches Holy Mysteries/Sacraments.

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6
A
Junior Member
Junior Member
A Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6
Dear Brad,

Quote
Do the EC's and EO's view all of the RC's Sacraments as valid ? If not which ones do and don't they validate ?
Well, by the very fact of being in communion with one another, I think it's safe to say that the various Eastern Catholic Churches accept the validity of RC Sacraments (or at least I hope so!) smile

However, with the Eastern Orthodox it's a little more complicated. My experience has told me there is not one single answer here, and even where there is ostensibly the same practice, it's interpretations within the same local Church can be manifold.

For example, prior to this century (based on the decree of the Ecumenical Patriarch in 1755), the Greek Orthodox were in the habit of re-baptizing all Roman Catholic converts. Prior to 1755, the practice was more varied amongst the Greek Orthodox, with some re-baptizing, with others simply Chrismating converts.

Slavic Orthodox (ex. Russian Orthodox) practice toward converts from Catholicism tended to be more relaxed. While there were definatly examples of Latins being re-baptized, eventually the norm became (as pre-revolutionary Russian service books indicate) as follows...

- Roman Catholic converts were received with repentence, confession of faith, and Holy Communion. Convert clergy were even received in their Orders. If the RC convert was never confirmed, they'd be Chrismated as well.

- Protestants that observed Trinitarian Baptism (I believe there was a list of which ones) professed the faith, were Chrismated, and given Communion.

Besides differences in practice, however, there have also been differences in interpretation (which go on to this day). For example, there are Orthodox who believe emphatically that there are no genuine sacraments outside of Orthodoxy. They base this on a long standing interpretation of documents like The Apostolic Canons and the local Council of St.Cyprian of Carthage, the acts of which were included in the collection of local Councils recognized by the Council in Trullo (a Byzantine "add-on" to the Sixth Ecumenical Council, which was largely ignored in the west, but has had considerable influence on Byzantine Church life.)

However, recognizing that the Ecumenical Councils themselves had canons recognizing certain Baptisms from schismatic and heretical groups, there has developed in the more "rigorous" Orthodox view a sort of synthesis. This synthesis view is embodied by St.Nicodemus the Hagiorite (who compiled the collection of Eastern Canons known as the Rudder), who recognized the practice of not re-baptizing converts from "heterodox" groups - however, he interpreted this as not being a recognition of their previous baptism as such, but as the Church's power to "fill that which is empty", to grant sacramental validity to what was previously just an empty form. In essence, this view says that the previous Baptism was only a "so called" Baptism (an empty rite, graceless), but the Church's condescending power can somehow validate it and "fill it up."

While I can understand St.Nicodemus' need to harmonize these two contradictory views, I think it's a synthesis which creates as many problemas as it solves. Also, despite what some really conservative or "traditionalist" Orthodox may tell you, it's quite obvious reading from pre-revolutionary Russian Orthodox services, commentaries, etc. that this "Nicodemian" theory had nothing to do with the Russian practice - they simply recognized the basic "validity" of certain sacraments, and in a rather Augustinian way, may have speculated that though valid, schismatic (this is how they viewed the RCC) sacraments may not be as "fruitful" as those received licity in "the Church."

Sorry for the long response, but the issue of Orthodox recognition of Roman Catholic Sacraments is (unfortunately) not a simple thing given to a single answer. Right now you will find both of the views I put forward (the old "Russian" and old "Greek/Nicodemian") views in the Orthodox world, even espoused by members of the same local Churches (ex. two Greek Orthodox scholars adhering to different views on this topic.)

Augustine


Moderated by  Irish Melkite 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0