www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West St Joseph - East and West

incognitus-
But as depictions of St Joseph apart from the festal icons in which he appears appear late in Christian history, how can you say there is a "language" which that depiction violates? Can you explain?
If you mean that physical contact means either blood relationship or physical intimacy, what of those instances where this is not true? Again, Simeon and the Child, St John leaning on Christ's breast at the Mystical Supper, and other such instances?
I am still open to what you are saying, but so far these claims are not convincing.
-Daniel
ps Oh, yeah, my brother's middle name is Joseph, too.

If St. Joseph had other children wouldn't they have been responsible for taking care of the Holy Theotokos after Our Lord's crucifixion? Isn't that why she was entrusted to St. John? Besides, some of the "brothers of the Lord" are also listed as children of Mary wife of Cleophas. (Matt 10:3; Matt 27:56; Mark 15:40; John 19:25) I've also heard that Aramaic has no word for cousin, so brother is used.

Dr. Eric:
"If St. Joseph had other children wouldn't they have been responsible for taking care of the Holy Theotokos after Our Lord's crucifixion? Isn't that why she was entrusted to St. John? Besides, some of the "brothers of the Lord" are also listed as children of Mary wife of Cleophas. (Matt 10:3; Matt 27:56; Mark 15:40; John 19:25) I've also heard that Aramaic has no word for cousin, so brother is used. "

Very good point. Actually Aramaic has no word for cousin because they use the Eskimo plan for relatives. (We in the West use the "Hawaian plan" for computing relations.)

Devotion to St. Joseph in the East is slowly evolving. I have an icon to him. (My middle name is Joseph), and have always have a devotion to him. He was considered the "odd man out" in the East for many years. But it is growing.

Dear Dr Eric and Mike,

From the standpoint of Eastern veneration of St Joseph, it is certain that the four sons of St Joseph by a previous marriage all became followers of Christ and are Saints. Cleopas, the brother of St Joseph, was one of the two disciples who met the Resurrected Christ on the way to Emmaus.

Clearly, John was our Lord's choice to take care of His Mother, as we know.

In John, we are all invited to take Mary as our Mother, as indeed she is the Mother of the Body of Christ that is the Church.

It was probably the case that all of St Joseph's sons were married by then and had families of their own and may not have even been in Jerusalem.

However, that isn't what the focus should be on, from this point of view.

St John the Theologian is the "Beloved Disciple," the one who leaned his head on the Chest of Christ near the Divine Heart - he is the disciple of the Love of the Divine Incarnation of God the Word and of Theosis.

In this, he is our entirely appropriate representative who wrote about and who calls us to Theosis in God the Word Incarnate Who was "with God and the Word was God."

So the Mother of God the Word is the bridge that brings us the very Incarnate God and St John and his theology and witness is an example in word and actuality of the Theosis to which we are called in Christ by the Holy Spirit to the glory of God the Father.

This is also why the Eastern Church, with its emphasis on Theosis, is often called the "Church of St John the Theologian."

In the Eastern Church, John is sometimes called (as he is in the Syriac Church) the "Son of Mary" (also in the Akathist to St John the Theologian).

The veneration of St John the Theologian in the East, like that of John the Baptist, is VERY high and it is believed that he was also taken to heaven by Christ, body and soul. He also has a plethora of holy titles beginning with "Virgin, Theologian etc."

I was privileged to visit the Monastery of Patmos where St John wrote "Revelation."

As we came out of the Church, a very old and frail Orthodox monk came up beside me on the steps to the Church and sat down. I didn't understand what he was saying to me in Greek, only that he had a brilliant smile on his face and very bright eyes.

I kissed his hand in reverence and turned quickly to call my wife, who had already gone up ahead of me, to come back to meet this delightful monk.

I turned for a split second and when my head came back to the front, the monk was GONE! He seemed barely able to walk, so great was his apparent age and yet in a split second he had vanished from my eyes and I immediately ran into the Church and around it, looking up and down the streets for him.

He was gone!

I believe I met a Saint that day . . . a real one!

Alex

Dear Jakub,

FYI, the very name "Aspirin" comes from the name of the patron saint against headaches, the fourth Bishop of Naples, Italy . . . Saint Aspirin or Santo Aspreno.

Believe it or not . . .

I guess "Aspirin" is easier to say than "Acetalsalycylic Acid" eh?

Alex

Thank you Alex for the cool trivia....

Holy Bishop, Santo Aspreno, intercede for my headache today!

In Christ,
Alice

White willow bark is the natural precursor to aspirin. But the bark has natural buffers in it so it doesn't eat up one's stomach. Smart guy that Hippocrates.

What is the opinion on why St. Joseph wanted the divorce? Was he angry at the supposed infidelity or did he consider himself unworthy to have such a woman as his wife? The latter view was one that I am told was favored by the late Holy Father John Paul II.

Dear Dr Eric,

Well, St Joseph was not yet married to the Theotokos - it would not have been a "divorce" properly speaking.

It was the period of betrothal prior to marriage and when the Theotokos was found to be with child, there would have been a scandal which is why St Joseph wanted to quietly end it - and then he received the dream etc.

And now we know the rest of the story!

Alex

I knew that they were only betrothed, but from what I have heard that the betrothal in those days was more like a marriage except without the benefits and it really was essentially a divorce and was treated as such even before the wedding.

Dear Alex,

That is VERY cool!

It is all in the eyes, and you say that you remember that his eyes were bright.

I remember seeing a monk priest with the most beautiful face a few years ago at a monastery. He was a visitor. He looked straight into my eyes as he was passing by to sit at the long table the rest of us were sitting at waiting to meet with the Elder, and at that point he was only a few inches away from my face....I truly will swear that his blue eyes actually twinkled in the most unearthly way...like a twinkling star. I couldn't stop thinking about who this enigmatic 'visitor' to the monastery that day actually was.

Alice

You may visit our site for theresources on Saint Joseph:

http://www.geocities.com/toc_phil/resources.html

You may visit our site for the resources on Saint Joseph:

http://www.geocities.com/toc_phil/resources.html