www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Structure of the Orthodox paralled to EC's

Hello again.

I am trying to understand the structure of the Orthodox Church as compared to the Eastern Catholic churches.

1) Are the Rites of the Orthodox Church paralleled with the Eastern Catholic churches? To clarify, I mean, for every rite in the Eastern Catholic church, is there an equivalent rite in the Orthodox Church?

2) How many rites are in the Orthodox Church?

3) Finally, what is the structural hierarchy of the Orthodox Church? I'm looking for something like Pope = such position in the Orthodox Church; cardinal = such position...etc.

Someone asked me this question this weekend, and I honestly answered, 'I honestly do not know, I'll find out'. J I did a search in the forums, and didn't really find anything. Likewise, I tried the Internet and didn't find an easy answer.

Thanks for your help and patience with answering my many questions.

Peace,
Mary

I'll let others answer the questions that I'm not qualified to answer, but here are a few answers for you. All of the Orthodox Churches have equvalent Churches in the Catholic Church, except for the Maronites and the Italo-Albanians who never broke communion with the Pope. (That depends on who you ask as the Orthodox claim that the Catholics broke with them.)

The Orthodox have equivalent hierarchical positions that the Catholics have except for the Pope. The Patriarch of Constantinople has the distinction of being the "First Among Equals" in Orthodoxy, but he has no power over any other bishop outside of his jurisdiction. His position is like that of any other Patriarch or Primate (Ecclesiastical not simian!)

Thank you Dr. Eric.

I like your sence of humor too.

sim�i�an : Relating to, characteristic of, or resembling an ape or a monkey. Too funny

Thank you, Dr. Eric.
Can you explain to this old Orthodox guy what a Cardinal is, and the origin and function of the College of Cardinals (if that is the proper term)?

Nestor:

A Cardinal is a bishop who has been given an honorary rank in the Catholic Church's hierarchy. A cardinal's chief function is to serve in the conclave that elects the next Pope. In the interim, all cardinals serve on various committees both at their national levels and at the Vatican at the international level. Each is called to be a confidant of the Pope--to be his closest, most trusted advisors. The Cardinal swears an oath that he will defend the Faith to the last drop of his blood--hence the cardinal red of his ordinary vesture showing his rank.

Until recently most of the Cardinals were of Italian origin, but under both Popes John XXIII and Paul VI the college of Cardinals was widened to give more input from bishops in major cities around the globe.

Centuries ago the Cardinals were the most senior priests of the diocese of Rome who met to elect the new Pope. There was a time when any male Catholic could be made a cardinal, even without holy orders, but I believe that it was Pope John Paul II who mandated that all cardinals must henceforth be bishops.

That's my "thumbnail" sketch.

In Christ,

BOB

I believe one of my favorite theologians, Henri de Lubac, was made a cardinal by Pope John Paul II without being consecrated a bishop. The good pope had "hounded" him for years to accept both the episcopate and the cardinal's hat as his good friend Jean Danielou had done, but Father Henri refused. Blessed John Paul finally gave in and made him a cardinal while remaining a priest.

Gordo

Gordo:
I believe you are right. Henri de Lubac was indeed made a cardinal without being consecrated a bishop. Also, Avery Dulles was made a cardinal but was not consecrated a bishop. It's my understanding that he asked Pope John Paul II to forego elevating him to the episcopate due to his advanced age.

St. Charles Borromeo was made a Cardinal by his uncle the Pope. He then had to go to seminary so he could be ordained a priest. Then he was made Archbishop of Milan.

Hi,

The short answer is no, because there is the Maronite Church. There is no non-Catholic "counterpart" (or sister church, if that's your cup of tea) of the Maronites.

The loner answer, actually, has everything to do with the second question:

That depends on what do you mean by "the Orthodox Church". If by that you mean the Eastern Orthodox Church, then the answer is "one". All Eastern Orthodox Churches are of the Byzantine rite with some variations (uses) among local churches.

The Antiochian Orthodox Church has some "Western Rite" parishes, which use a combination of old Roman and Anglican rites, but other Eastern Orthodox are VERY reluctant to accept the Western Rite experiment, to the point of recommending their faithful NOT to receive the mysteries from Western Rite priests.

However, if you broaden the concept of "Orthodox" to include the Oriental Orthodox and/or the Assyrian Church of the East, then you'd have a liturgical diversity that comes a little closer to that of the Catholic Church.

Well, again that depends what do you mean by Orthodox.

All Apostolic Churches have at least priests and bishops, and I am pretty sure they all have deacons.

Now, in the Byzantine Churches there is a distinction between a secular deacon (called simply a deacon) and a monastic deacon (called a hierodeacon), and deacons have honorific titles such as protodeacon for the secular clergy and archdeacon for the monastics. The Latin Church has no such things.

In the Latin Church we have honorifics for priests, which are the various ranks of Monsignor. In the Byzantine Churches there is the honorific of archpriest and mitred archpriest, which could be more or less equivalent to the Latin Monsignor, but not really the same thing.

With bishops, things get A LOT more complicated.

In the Latin Church any metropolitan is an archbishop, at least, but the titular (or minor) Patriarchal Sees haver a prelate with the title of Patriarch, although it is not in the same sense of the Eastern patriarchs.

There is no Orthodox Pope and there is really no College of Cardinals in the Orthodox Church. Of course some of the things cardinals do in the Catholic Church need also to be done in the Orthodox Church, and they are carried out by some officer or another, usually by clerics in Episcopal orders but with only titular Sees.

I hope this helps.

Shalom,
Memo

Just to clarify: That was one lone Greek Orthodox bishop who made a public statement to that effect (this bishop has since gone to his eternal reward - may his memory be eternal).

Many other Orthodox authorities may be skeptical of the Western Rite, but not to this extreme.

The Greek Orthodox Metropolitan of Denver, by sharp contrast, is friendly and cordial toward the Antiochian Western Rite parishes in his area, and has been known to preside from the throne as a guest at Western Rite Orthodox services.

Mary,

First, let me caution that "the Orthodox Church" doesn't exist. There is:

• "the" Eastern Orthodox Church or Communion, which is constituted of fourteen Autocephalus Churches, five Autonomous Churches, and six Churches which are neither autocephalic nor autonomous - but are under the omophor of Constantinople (an additional half-dozen Churches are considered non-Canonical or of Irregular status, as they are not in full communion with all of Eastern Orthodoxy);
• six Oriental Orthodox Churches (which together are often termed the Oriental Orthodox Communion); and,
• four pre-Chalcedonian Churches.

The quick answers to your first two queries - clarified, conditioned, and qualified below -
(1) yes, with a single exception
(2) five

The term "Rite" is not often used by the Orthodox (especially the Eastern Orthodox). All of the Churches in the Eastern Orthodox Communion do, however, serve the Liturgy according to the usages developed in Byzantium (later Constantinople). (The exceptions are the service of a "Western Rite" Liturgy, referenced by Memo, which exists in some parishes of the Antiochian Orthodox Church and ROCOR.)

The liturgical forms derived from Byzantium are essentially identical, other than in the hierarchical dyptichs or commemorations, to what Eastern Catholics describe as the Byzantine Rite.

As is the case with Eastern Catholics, principal differences from Church to Church are observed between Churches of Greek versus Slavic tradition. These are most readily observable in liturgical language, vesture, architecture (e.g., rounded versus onion domes), liturgical calendars (e.g., particular Saints whose feasts are observed), religious art (iconographic style), forms of chant, some clerical titling.

The Oriental Orthodox Communion includes those Churches which serve the Divine Liturgy according to the forms which Catholics term the Alexandrian, Antiochian, and Armenian Rites.

The Assyrian Church of the East and the Ancient Church of the East and the Indian Churches which derive from them (none of which are technically of either the Eastern or Oriental Orthodox Communions - it is these I termed "pre-Chalcedonian" at the outset of this post), serve the Divine Liturgy according to the form which Catholics term the Chaldean Rite.

As Dr. Eric and Memo observed, there is no equivalent to the Catholics' Maronite Rite, although it is a derivation of the Antiochian Rite.

Other than the Maronites, there are "countepart" Churches among the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, or Assyrian Churches, to all the Catholic Churches. Dr. Eric mentioned the Italo-Greico-Albanian Byzantine Catholic Church as having no counterpart; while it is true insofar as there being no "Canonical Orthodox Church" so-named, the Greek and Albanian Orthodox Churches are its direct and legitimate forbearers.

Quote

3) Finally, what is the structural hierarchy of the Orthodox Church? I'm looking for something like Pope = such position in the Orthodox Church; cardinal = such position...etc.

The structure is "looser" (and I do not use that term disparagingly) in that there is no single central authority.

Patriarchs (and other heads of specific Churches, which in some instances will be a Metropolitan or other hierarch) exert authority outside of their own particular jurisdiction only in conjunction with their Synod. The governance is, therefore, conciliar.

When you ask for equivalences to Pope and Cardinal, you are looking at a Western/Latin model. It doesn't match.

The "highest titled" hierarch usually found in an Orthodox Church, Eastern or Oriental (or among the pre-Calcedonians) is a Patriarch - although the title "Catholicos" is found in some of the Oriental and pre-Chalcedonian Churches.

As is the case with Eastern and Oriental Catholics, Metropolitans continue to have a functional role - versus the Latin Church, in which the title is now essentially only honorific.

The precise structure and titling of canonical jurisdictions (patriarchates, catholicosates, metropolia, archdioceses/archeparchies, dioceses/eparchies, prelacies, exarchates, etc.) can vary somewhat among Churches. As Memo referenced, all have priests or presbyters, deacons, most also have subdeacons, and the minor orders exist in most Churches.

As to priestly and diaconal titles, there are a myriad. The honorific title of Monsignor can still be found in a rare few instances - but probably only among elder clergy of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese (ACROD), where it is a throwback to the latinization that existed when that Church came into Orthodoxy.

Among the titles one might encounter, dependent on the particular Church, are Archpriest, Archimandrite, Mitred Archpriest, Mitred Archimandrite, Canon, Chorbishop, Confessor, Hegumen, Hieromonk, Economos, Patriarchal Exarch, Periodeut, Protopresbyter, Mitred Protopresbyter, Proto-synchellus, Synchellus, Vartabad, Archdeacon, Protodeacon, Hierodeacon.

In some instances these are purely honorific, others are functional. Although it focuses on Eastern and Oriental Catholic usage, the thread Archimandrite? Mitred Archpriest? Hegumen? will offer some insights as to the various titles.

Many years,

Neil

That is not the Orthodox view of the church however.

Fasinating. While still a little confusing, you've helped me to learn a lot more than I knew before.

I'm glad I asked.

If I dumb it down ( really dumb it down ), would it be fair to say:

The Orthodox church(es) are various churches (detailed above) which hold the same dogma, escentially the same litury, and are in communion with each other.

When a decision needs to be made and expressed, (perhaps there may be an issue within a certain jurisdiction), there may be a council of Patriarchs?

My mental picture is sort of a checks-and-balances system with out a president, who will discuss a certain item/issue and come to a common agreement? (if we model it somewhat after our government. Am I understanding this, or am I chopping it all up?

There are no rites, per se, but there are churches in communion, originating from apostolic times.

Please help me if I am wrong in any of my comments on what I have understood (or mis-understood).

Thank you for your answers.

Peace,
Mary

This is probably the best, simplest description of what the the Orthodox Church is.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Orthodox_Church

If I may be so bold to state that the Patriarch/Chief Hierarch of each of the 14 Autocephalous (15, including the OCA, whose autocephaly was granted by the Russian Orthodox Church) Orthodox Churches is a "mini-Pope" in practice and in appearances.

An Orthodox Patriarch/Chief Hierarch governs his national/regional Church with the help of his Permanent Synod.

On the other hand, the Pope governs the Catholic Church with the able assistance of the College of Cardinals, which displays the characteristics of a permanent synod, but on a global scale! The only difference, perhaps, is that the entire Holy Synod (not the Permanent Synod) elects the new Patriarch.

I would not say, however, that the Cardinalitial title is merely honorific. It is more of a juridic title with the attendant powers, rights, and responsiblities.

In the ecclesiastical hierarchy of the Catholic Church, the Cardinals are of the highest dignity next only to the Pope outranking bishops, archbishops (whether Metropolitans or Majors), and, beginning in the 14th century, even Patriarchs (as now shown in the order of precedence among the Cardinal-Bishops where Eastern Catholic Patriarchs occupy the 7th, 8th, and 9th in the order of procession during consistories).

The Cardinals have 3 major roles:

(1) They help the Pope govern the day-to-day acctivities of the worldwide Catholic Church by heading the various dicasteries of the Roman Curia (Cardinal-Deacons) or running their own archdioceses in major or capital cities of the world (Cardinal-Priests) or running their own Patriarchates (Cardinal-Patriarchs).

(2) As exclusive electors of the next Pope, the under 80 Cardinals meet in conclave after the death or resignation of the Supreme Pontiff to elect his successor.

(3) During the interregnum, the Cardinals as a body (including 80 and over Cardinals) and led by the Dean of the College, govern the day-to-day affairs of the Holy See/Catholic Church until the next Pope has been duly elected and qualified.

Amado