www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Anglican Rite creation a possibility

All,

I have recently come across this news article from an Australian web source.

Anglican Rebel Looks for Vatican Pact [news.com.au]

This article suggests that the splinter, Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC) led by the former Roman Catholic, Archbishop Hepworth, is happily anticipating becoming a new rite of the Catholic Church.

For years his Communion has fostered dialogue with Rome and most of these have been fruitful talks as far as ecumenism goes.

As Eastern Catholics, I ask you; how do you view these recent events? How long do you think the creation of an Anglican rite will take? Do you think our Holy Father Benedict will favor this venue instead of pursuing talks with the Anglican Communion proper? Any other thoughts?

Obviously I know this will not happen overnight, if at all, but it is interesting to speculate.

Would appreciate your comments,

ProCatholico

If I am correct, there is already an Anglican use rite or something in effect.

Partially. The Anglican rite particularly in Britain, complete with alterations to give it valid form and matter, is in use. However, the Anglican Catholics have no particular church.

No, the "Anglican Use" which the Holy See has granted in the 1980s to some former Anglican and Episcopal clergy converting with their parishes the faculty of celebrating the sacramental rites according to Anglican forms, doctrinally corrected, is not a "Rite" separate from the Roman (or Latin Rite). It is similar to a rescension.

The other "rescension" allowed under the Roman Rite is the Missal of 1962 (or Tridentine Mass)which some institutes within the Roman Rite, such as the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP), have the faculty to celebrate the sacramental rites according to the forms in use prior to the Second Vatican Council. This faculty can also be obtained, throguh an indult, by individual priests from their bishop or from the Pontifical Council Ecclesia Dei.

Today, there are only 6 other Rites which are allowed limited use in the (Western) Catholic Church: Mozarabic, Ambrosian, Bragan, Dominican, Carmelite, and Carthusian.

So, I really have doubts whether the "Anglican Use" would merit elevation to a separate "Rite" for Anglicans and Episcopalians if there is a corporate union.

Amado

Dear Amado,
Do you know of anyplace where the Carmelite Rite is still in use?
There is the potential for a more wide-spread use of the Mozarabic Rite.
There are occasional celebrations of the Sarum Missal in England and perhaps elsewhere.
Some enthusiasts in France are striving to revive the Gallican Rite - if they want my advice I would suggest finding another name, since "Gallican" causes deep upsetment in Rome.
As Cardinal, the present Pope was certainly friendly and sympathetic to Anglican groups seeking to come into full communion with Rome (bearing in mind that Anglican Orders are not recognized as valid). It remains to be seen what the Pope will now be willing to do. In England, Cardinal Hume was dead against it. Australia might be easier, particularly since the local Anglican Church is staunchly Low Church beyond belief.

Incognitus

Father Ernest Larkin, O.Carm., writes in Carmelite Spirituality [carmelnet.org] that the Rite was suppressed after Vatican II by a decision of the Carmelites themselves.

Many years,

Neil

The Anglican Use in the RC seems more like a temporary messure, before the adaptation of their liturgy to the "normative mass" of the Roman Church. Priests cannot say the BCP Mass outside their parishes for example.

My question is as follows:

1. What liturgical differences can be found between the Book of Common Prayer of Anglican Use by the Roman Catholic Church, and the Rite of St. Tykhon used by the Antiochian Orthodox?

I myself have some antipathy for Anglicanism, and the use of its liturgy by Apostolic Churches, as it was originaly confected with evil purposes, to undermine the faith and transform the once venerable English Church into a Protestant sect.

However, there's a very nice Anglican Church at my Mexican town. I passed there last week, and they had a very reverent and British-styled liturgy (much more reverent than most of the catholic parishes here who have started using guitars and mandolines). I think that if this parish became Catholic and preserved that rite, many Christians would start coming there.

Mexican,

I think you're absolutely correct; there is also no provision made for the training of additional, future priests in the Usage. This suggests an expectation by Rome that the Usage will ultimately die out and its survivors be absorbed into mainstream Latin Catholicity.

Many years,

Neil

All,

Amadeus writes:

This is indeed an accurate description of the Anglican Use within the Roman Catholic Church in America.

I have heard that during the reign of Pope Paul VI, the creation of an Anglican Rite (sui juris) jurisdiction was discussed. Though this idea never gained momentum and died away.

However, the current Pastoral Provision, as it is termed, that allows former Episcopalian/Anglican priests and laity to become Roman Catholic while retaining some vestments of their Anglican heritage, was created by Pope John Paul II (memory eternal) as a reaction primarily to the ordination of women in the ECUSA and much of the Anglican Communion.

In essence, the current Anglican Use is just a variation of the Latin (Western) Rite. It is NOT akin to the Eastern Rites, which are, Churches with sui juris status.

However, the Traditional Anglican Communion, mentioned in the linked article above, speaks of actually becoming or rather hoping to become a Rite, seperate from the Latin.

In other words, if this jurisdiction would be created, we would have 2 large Western Rites and some ~22 Eastern Rites.

Yes, it is true that there already are other Western rites, such as the Mozarabic, Ambrosian, and Bragan, but these are confined to small geographic areas. And in the proper sense, have no distinct hierarchy from the Latin Rite. And in all honesty they are diminsihing in numbers.

So to sum up, should the Traditional Anglican Communion enter into full communion with Rome it IS very conceivable that a distinct Rite will be implemented for them, as opposed to just absorbing them into Roman Catholicism, as the Anglican Usage currently has done.

ProCatholico

If I may respectfully disagree, Mexican and Neil, you should check out this and some of the other websites of the handful of Anglican Use parishes in the USA (mostly Texas). I don't think anyone has given them the message that they're going away anytime soon!

http://www.atonementonline.com/

Martin

P.S.: They have rood screens! And their priests say the Mass "ad orientam!"

More about the Anglican Use:

Bernard Cardinal Law is the "overseer" if you will of the "pastoral provision" of the Anglican Use in the USA (although the parishes are directly subject to their local Latin Rite ordinaries):

http://www.pastoralprovision.org/

I also am aware of an RC (Latin Rite) priest who will sometimes substitute when an Anglican Use priest vacations (and will say Mass in the Anglican Use). He has written extensively about the Anglican Use from the perspective of a Latin Rite RC priest.

The "Anglican Use Society:"

http://www.anglicanuse.org/

Martin

On one other note...


Currently there is a plethora of independent/continuing Anglican movements around the world. The TAC (Traditional Anglican Communion) is among them.

As previously mentioned the TAC is the largest Anglican group currently engaged in serious talks with the Vatican, regarding full communion. I would say even more so than the Anglican Communion proper, which accepts the validity of female priests (among other things) which seriously jeopardizes any hope for full communion with Rome.

Among the obstacles TAC/Vatican dialogue will most likely encounter will be; the permission of a married priesthood in the TAC, as well as the office of deaconess employed by TAC.

In the United States, the Anglican Church in America is the name for the TAC branch in this country. Just as the Episcopal Church USA is the branch of the Anglican Communion in the U.S.

Knowing fully well that this is an Eastern Catholic discussion board I am bringing this issue up because of the very real possibilty that we all may be witnessing the beginnings of the creation of an Anglican Rite (sui juris Church) as has been stated previously.

Other notable "Continuing" Anglican groups in the U.S. that are "Catholic/orthodox" minded include the Anglican Catholic Church (Original Province)and the Anglican Province of Christ the King. It would be interesting if these groups also joined the band-wagon of pursuing talks with Rome, in hopes of becoming a new Rite within the Church.

Surely most of us here are aware of the aforementioned Anglican Use in the United States. If a Rite would be created would the already existing Anglican Use parishes be absorbed into the new jurisdiction?

Call me silly, but I live for speculation, and more importantly a hope for genuine corportae reunion of like-minded churches.

Any thoughts?

ProCatholico