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Dec 29th, 2019
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So do either of you have a source for the real mccoy? That I can get mail order or something?
I don't like Mrs. T's -- but in a pinch, when I just can't get organized to make them from scratch -- which unfortunately has happened for most Christmas eve suppers over the years -- I rely on Mrs. T (what does that T stand for anyway? Some good Hunkie name?)
Nonna
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I got a question. How did we get from differences between the Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics to pyrohy?
Mind you they are good in a fasting period but I think we are way off topic here.
In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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I agree with Father Anthony: pirohi should not be discussed in a thread about what divides Eastern Catholics and Orthodox. If anything, pirohi unite us!  Dave
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T as in Twardzik, is what the T in "Mrs. T" stands for.
Ungcsertezs
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Pirozhki should be home made.
Andrew
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My apologies Father Anthony. But, I simply have to point out to Andrew that there's a difference between Pirohi and Pirozhki!!! a huge difference.
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Maybe for matter of curiousity sake, please explain the difference for those of us that may be culturally challenged in this regard (meaning those that are not Slavic).
In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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With pleasure!
Pirohi (accent on the middle syllable) (as called by the Carpatho-Rusyn in Ponashemo ) are potato dumplings: a noodle like dough cut into circles stuffed with mashed potato or kapusta (sauer Kraut) sealed up then dropped into boiling water till cooked. The Russians call them Pierogies and sometimes Vareniki.
Pirozhki or Piroshki (with the accent on the last syllable) are purely Russian, they are rolls stuffed with meat, cabbage, maybe other stuff, but the dough is a yeast based dough, and they are baked.
I prefer the former.
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Ok. It sounds like Pirozhki are more to my pallate's liking.  In IC XC, Father Anthony+ Now can we get back to the topic, please!
Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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On this forum, ultimately it's about the food!
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Originally posted by Nonna:
Boldly intruding into this conversation:
my sense is that American Catholicism is different from European Catholicism because of the Calvinist/Charismatic cultural influences which are so pervasive in U.S. culture. And I'm sure it's bleeding into the Eastern services too, as converts come in and people *of* the US culture become its priests and leaders.
"I am not sure what you mean here. In the context of America, the only influeneces that I have experienced have been negative ones. the experience has been one of loss and alienation to ancient tradition and practice.
Americans are about time: What is done in 30 minutes can be done in 15, so we do it in 15. This translates poorly into a Church tradition.
Why have Orthros when no one is going to show up?
Why have Vespers unless you have too? We don't need an Iconostasis or Icons all over.
Americans are practical: so lets have pews. I need to sit down, I'm tired (now this is a legitmate concern for the lederly and thos with physical impediments)."
I attended the ROCOR as a child growing up -- no pews, nothing eliminated (took me a while to understand who the catechumens were) service entirely in Old Slavonic. And man, when the bishop was visiting, the service seemed to go *forever*
But, I have never experienced the reverence, the mystery, the other worldliness, the humility in the Lutheran, Episcopal or Catholic services. And the Slavonic music is so profound. A truly melismatic language if there ever was one. I even went to a Methodist Christmas eve service and was surprised by the focus on "baby Jesus" rather than the "Christ child" -- can you see the distinction? I'm not sure how to put it into words.
well just running on here. Unfortunately where I live now there is no Orthodox church, I have gone a few times to the Byzantine Catholic church (St.s Cyril and Methodosius that one poster mentioned somewhere that they attend.)
And in the Western churches, catholic and protestant, the services are so truncated, one cannot get into a spiritual, contemplative state, before the whole thing is over. there's something about "in peace let us pray to the lord" that is wonderfully orienting. And to ask that the day be "holy perfect,peaceful and sinless" -- again how grounding, how powerful...
At the Lutheran Christmas eve service, I could feel the excitement from all the people when they got to light a candle for only a few minutes. In the orthodox service candles burn the whole time, the air is filled with the scent of beeswax ( and at times the smell of singed bangs, when I'd lean too close to the candle I was holding) I knew the Lutherans really were missing something.
I guess I'm wandering here. BUt your comment about losing something ancient touched me. The Russians chose orthodoxy (back in 990 A.D. or so) because they found value in having a bit of heaven on earth -- which is what the Orthodox church and service was -- a window onto that other place -- that can inspire one and provide one with the stamina to be a better person. As humans we need those reminders and reinforcements. A beautiful reflection from the heart. You echoed many of the reasons I had to leave the RCC for Orthodoxy. Regards.
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Originally posted by Nonna:
My apologies Father Anthony. But, I simply have to point out to Andrew that there's a difference between Pirohi and Pirozhki!!! a huge difference. You are correct!!! I should have posted more. I have to admit we buy Mrs. T's because my kids like them. I'll eat them too, they're just alright. I just love home made Pirozhki over Pirohi myself. Andrew
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Originally posted by Nonna:
So do either of you have a source for the real mccoy? That I can get mail order or something? Nonna, Check your local Eastern Catholic / Orthodox community. In the 'homeland' (OH, PA) most churches make and sell them, as do some of the Cultural Centres. Another suggestion is find an 'ethnic' family, make friends with the matriarch, and learn. Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!
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Kobzar inquiring minds want to know Where do yours come from ?
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So to return to the main topic. Is there not much to say or rather add to what has already been written above, regarding the difference between Byzantine Catholic and Eastern Orthodox?
I was always told that the services are identical and the Byzantine Catholics have married priests but the only difference was that they recognized the pope. And I remember hearing him mentioned during the service, but don't remember if the filioque is included when the creed is recited...
Apparently there may be differences based on accidents of history and geography. What I was always told as a child was that the Uniat church was essentially Orthodox, but that the leaders made a deal with the Catholics that if they recognized the pope, the catholics would stop their persecutions of the Rusyn. I also understand that as many of the Rusyn immigrated to the U.S. they reverted back to orthodoxy as my ancestors did, and in fact there were gifts given from the Tzar to many of these parishes in the U.S.
Meanwhile those who remained in Ruthenia and as Byzantine Catholic, many were driven out of Poland under Operation Vistla in 1947 either into Ukraine or were sent to the still standing Nazi concentration camps, and that during the Soviet Union period the Byzantine Catholics were forced to submit to the Orthodox leadership under the Soviet regime. And there is much resentment there.
But I know nothing about the theological pressures placed on the Byzantine Catholics by Rome (or by Moscow for that matter).
Oh and...what does "praxis" mean in this context?
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