www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Difference between Orthodox and Byz Catholic

Nonna, thank you for your insight. How true, and how a "long" Liturgical Service like the Compline/Vespers/Litya/Blessing of water on the eve of Theophany.. how the hours melt together and you don't realize the time that passes because of the prayer, it just flows and flows and takes you in.
A long time ago the thought of singing a 40 page service would have made me antsy, now I don't even look at page numbers, I'm singing away, praying.. it's an experience.
Like the Divine Liturgy you feel like everyone is together as one, the prayer is so powerful, every word has so much meaning. We are singing what we believe. We pray for peaceful times, for the sick, the suffering, for catechumens, for the departed, and not just once, but many many times during the Liturgy.
I took a Protestant friend and she was amazed. It wasn't liturgy. We had a very small choir and I sang for oh, 1 and a halfish. She expressed how that the prayers and psalms were so meaningful. She said everything was a prayer and just takes you into to prayer. She said at her church they hear a sermon and sing a few songs. At first she said she wasn't keen about how long it looked like it was going to last, and she never stood that long.. but she said that melted away and she got caught up in the prayer.
The beauty that is the East, wheter it is Byzantine Catholic or Orthodox. We're blessed.

Dear Pyrohy,

Amen to that!

Michael

I agree!

I am a Latin Rite Roman Catholic. For the past few years I have been moving steadily towards the Orthodox Church. I have attended the Divine Liturgy at both Byzantine Catholic and Orthodox Churches. I now sing in the choir of our Antiochian Orthodox Church. My observations: Both churches use the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. The big difference is the degree of active vocal participation by their respective congregations. In the Byzantine Catholic Church, the congregation is led by a cantor, and everyone sings along � very active involvement with the priest. The BC priest wears a wireless mic, and the congregation can hear every word spoken by him. In the Orthodox Church, there is a choir, but the congregation usually doesn�t sing along � very limited vocal interaction with the priest.

I am a Latin Rite Roman Catholic. One of my sons is becoming Orthodox so I have attended two Orthodox services with him: one was a Christmas eve service which was Compline and Matins. The other was a Sunday Divine Liturgy. These were at two different churches, but in both cases the whole small congregation participated and sang everything. Perhaps a bit more so at the mostly convert congregation he attends regularly, but there was full participation in both places.

Because I was so moved by the Orthodox worship but feel I couldn't leave Catholicism (I am a convert, since 1972 when I was 21) yesterday (Saturday evening vigil service for Sunday) I attended the Byzantine Catholic church in the nearest city to where I live. I was somewhat disappointed. Almost the entire congregation was elderly. There was no choir. Some people sang the people's parts of the liturgy but they were singing along with one man who was miked. Most were not singing, leading my daughter to say,"Well, they're still Catholics, what do you expect?" There was no book giving the musical settings so that someone who can read music but was unfamiliar with this setting for the liturgy could sing it. I tried anyway.

So my very limited experience is the opposite of what a previous poster said.

I also noticed that the icons in this church were in a rather different style; sort of a hybrid between Orthodox icons and the style of Catholic "holy pictures."

I have to say that the Orthodox worship moved me immensely and my heart is really longing for it to a degree which astonishes me. I was hoping the Byzantine Catholic worship would be the same and that I would find a community I could join in which I could worship that way while still being a Catholic. What I found seemed more like something just being done for some old folks until it isn't needed any more.

Susan Peterson

Bingo

I just want to clarify that the Byzantine Catholic churches are not universally like that, but it is a big problem in multiple locations. There are also some Orthodox parishes in the same sad state, probably for the same reasons.

+T+
Michael

This reminds me of when I called the Ukrainian Catholic (Byzantine) parish in North Dakota last year. The priest would say 'God bless you' and hang up on me when I told him i was interested in moving out that way. When my wife finally got him to talk on the phone he was very depressed and telling her the parish is a few old folks and not worth our time. It let the wind out of my sails.

WHAT?

Hard to believe, but true.

I had a similar reception at a Serbian parish once...the priest looked at me, asked me if I was Serbian, and said "that's nice" to my negative reply and walked away.

John, I think the food analogy is a pretty good one, actually. We've discussed especially Florence on another thread. While the other councils such as Florence may pertain to the Latins, may contain rough or confused language from our perspective, I cannot go so far as to say they are inherently heterodox from a Trinitarian perspective, as if I did believe so I would need to end my Eucharistic communion with the Roman Church.

I return to Soloviev's analysis, that the greatest misfortune to befall mankind was the separation of East and West. East and West need each other to what I call "complete their charisms", and like Soloviev I believe one does not have to give up anything of Orthodoxy to be in communion with the Petrine Ministry.
DD

Im a bit confused. If Eastern Catholics don't accept Ecumenical Councils, that definded Dogma, are they denying Dogma?

not trying to insinuate something, Im just a little confused.

God Bless,

Sam

Eastern Catholics do indeed accept the Ecumenical Councils. Not all of the later local Roman Councils had Eastern participation nor promulgated any statements that pertain to the Eastern Churches. But obviously we see nothing inherently contradictory to our faith even in these or we wouldn't remain in communion.
DD

So your saying that no Dogmas are denied by Eastern Catholics?

I heard some talk about Westerns misunderstanding Papal Primacy, and Papal Infallbility. I would love to here an Eastern Catholic opinion on this.

God Bless,

Sam

Dear Sam,

Eastern Catholics, like Eastern Orthodox, have ALWAYS believed in the total holiness of the Most Holy Mother of God.

The East was the first to formally establish the feast of the Conception of ST Anne - which, according to the rules of "lex orandi, lex credendi" meant that the Mother of God, the object of veneration of that feast, is honoured as a Saint AT HER CONCEPTION.

We also celebrate the feast of the Conception of St John the Baptist and this also means that the Holy Spirit sanctified him at his Conception in view of his crucial role in salvation history.

We also have always highly honoured the feast of her Dormition and Assumption into Heaven where she was glorified by the Holy Trinity as our Protection et al.

So the Marian dogmas of the Latin Church say NOTHING to us that we didn't believe or pray before. The Latin Church, in fact, can teach the Eastern Churches NOTHING about devotion to the Most Holy Virgin Mary. (Prior to Pope John Paul II, there was a period of time in the Latin Church where Mary seemed to really be in the shadows).

As for the Pope of Rome's place, we EC Churches have always seen in him the ultimate arbiter of the Church and defender of the Tradition of the Church from the time of the Apostles.

His role is not to "invent" new Tradition, but to articulate and defend the Apostolic Tradition which belongs to the entire Church.

We have the right and responsibility to govern ourselves under our Patriarchs/Primates as well and this is why we sometimes resent Rome's continuing meddling in our jurisdictional affairs - something that has simply got to end, period.

If there is any other dogma or doctrine necessary to the deposit of the Christian faith that we EC's don't have, please let us know!

Alex