www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Restructer theory

Would it be possible to restructer the Easter Catholic churches to do away with their ethnic grouping. do you think it would help or hurt them to do away with ethinic titles such as russian greek. what would this hypothetical restructer look like?

there are 7 main Rites i think that it would be good to unite the subRites into the Main Rite and do away with ethinic titles. i realize that existing parishes would remian ethinic however it would creat new oppertunities for new parishes. i know some will be opposed to this and some will be really opposed to what im about to say but if you can think of another better way im up for it. Each of the Rites (which would now be 7) would have their own Patriarch each Patriarch would have jursdiction over his Rite with the Pope being head of the Church. ok now wait before you start yelling. Their position would be one of a legal difference not of ordination, they would be higher than a cardnial but not equal to the Pope and they would only have authority over their Rite. Think of them as the Popes right (or Rite) hand men, streamline things. ok so here is the big concern on my part, what would happen to all the current patriarchs in the consolidation? from what i understand the East does not have Cardinals... well i dont know maybe this is a horrible idea but somebody sound off. i think it would make the easter Churches much more effective and also help them in their growth.

Dear pyranima,

First, as an FUS alum, I'm always happen to see another person from Steubenville posting here, and I hope you'll continue.

Second, I think you're proposal is unacceptable to both the East and the West. Canonical territory is a well established and important concept in Christian tradition. Granted, it is not applied as strictly nowadays as it once was (e.g. the existence of eastern dioceses in France, Latin dioceses in Greece, etc), neither Catholics nor Orthodox have given any indication that they wish to do away with canonical territory. (If you need, I can provide you with some statements from Catholic canon law.)

God bless,
Peter.

I am speaking of an ideal. The concept i have would not do away with canonical teritory but it would change the way they are handled. there are cities that have both easter and western catholic churches. what i am suggesting would be an overlay and would require cooperation with eachother... But baring that topic completely the subject is a restructer of the way the Eastern Church operates not where it can or cannot go. a united eastern front or should i say a united Rite front. by giving control to one see and allowing then to call the shots so to say it would allow for faster decision making and more effective distribution of missions and priests if you look at how the eparchy are set up now they overlap eachother for example the Ruthenian eparchy of Pitt overlaps the Byzantine-Romanian eparchy of Oh.

I am disturbed by the idea that if you live in this city you must be this Rite, this idea would allow for more than one Rite to co-exist in a city or area, but it also requires people working together.

Well, pyranima, I'll give you an "A" for originality.

Peter,

Actually, pyranima's idea, as expressed in her original post is neither so novel nor outrageous as to not have been explored and discussed previously on this forum and elsewhere.

See: Patriarchs - Should the Concept Change? and How Many Patriarchates Should the Byzantines Have? .

As to your statement regarding doing away with canonical territory, most informed Eastern and Oriental Catholics would much prefer to see an end to the concept of canonical territory as presently interpreted in the Church. It is this precise notion that precludes our primatial hierarchs and synods from exercising authority outside of what are deemed our "historical territories", effectively separating our eparchies and stand-alone parishes in the diaspora from their Mother Churches, except in matters liturgical.

Many years,

Neil

pyranima,

As you can see from my post to Peter, above, I don't find the ideas expressed in your first post to be at all shocking and, in fact, consider them to have some merit.

Your second post, however, confuses me. Where did you get the notion that the existence of an Eastern Church See in a city requires that those of the Eastern Churches who reside there are required to adhere to the Rite or See of that Church? Nothing could be further from the truth.

The Eparchy of Saint George in Canton of the Romanians, for instance, is responsible for all the faithful and all the parishes of the Romanian Greek-Catholics in the US, regardless of where those are situated. The same is true for the Eparchy of Newton of Melkites as regards the Melkite Greek-Catholics. The Armenians and Syro-Malabarese each have a single nation-wide jurisdiction also.

The Eparchy of Parma of the Ruthenians, which you also referenced, has a defined multi-state jurisdiction, as do each of the 3 other Ruthenian and the 4 Ukrainian canonical entities. The Maronites divide the US into 2 Eparchies; that is also the case with regard to the Chaldeans.

Many years,

Neil

All very tidy and corporate. I believe it wont work as I think that people wont take to such tidyness. They go to what Church suits them and where they feel comfortable. Meddle with that and they will walk.