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What would make me Orthodox?

The parousia.

Alex, I'm still in a humorous mood.

Paul

Adam is onto something. If we truly believe in lex credendi, lex orandi, a catastrophic forced demolition of the Liturgy would certainly get one to thinking. But overall this question leads to a potentially very dangerous what-if game that we probably shouldn't get to wrapped around.

I would go back into Orthodoxy (Having been Chrismated into the OCA already), specifically our counterpart in Orthodoxy the Johnstown Diocese, if the Metropolia (Ruthenian) modernized the Liturgy in a fashion like the Latins; the Liturgy is the important thing for me; Church politics mean nothing as I get older.

But, I doubt if that would happen; at least I hope not

Adam, I can certainly understand your feelings on the issue, since the Liturgy is such a vital aspect of our spiritual life.

However, would the alteration/gutteration of the Liturgy be enough to leave the Church? Not for me. As I'm sure most already know, I personally have no attraction to the Novus Ordo Mass, and will only attend the Tridentie Mass (or Eastern Liturgies) once I am Catholic. I've been to two N.O's (one in St. Patrick's) and just have no attraction to it. Despite this fact, even if the Tridentine Mass weren't available as an indult, I woulnd't break communion and go SSPX or Sedevacantist. I've never thought twice about it. The alteration of the liturgy to my dislike doesn't (in my eyes) validate an abandonment of the Church.

But, I'm not saying this should necessarily be your opinion. And thank goodness that the Tridentine Mass IS available, as well as authentic Eastern liturgies! Deo Gratias!

ChristTeen287

I wanted to cheer out loud:

"Nothing. We are already Orthodox."

Yes, Yes, Yes.

This needs to be repeated and repeated and repeated. My parish and others have a problem with non-Byzantine Catholics wanting our Churches to re-instate old Roman Catholic customs in our Churches, and so when I read someone OFFICIAL say we are already Orthodox I want to cheer.

I suppose my answer to the orginal question is that if our church in my town became too Latinized, I would quietly go to the OCA Orthodox Church, but I would keep my foot in the door of my Byzantine Catholic Church. That probably makes no sense to anyone, except those to whom this is also a concern in their parish.

WWJD -- What Would Jesus Do? (I'm working on that answer!). :p

Dmitri,

You left the Eastern Catholic Church, became Orthodox, and returned to Eastern Catholicism? What made you go, and what made you return? I'm guessing from your post that becoming Orthodox was a let down, but I'm just wondering what your reasons were for going and then returning.

God Bless,

Jenny

Well speaking from my perspective, as one who started off Byzantine went Orthodox and came back, I missed being in Communion with John Paul, I missed the feeling of order and surety that I had before on issues such as contraception, abortion and other doctrines. I missed the reality that as a Catholic I was in a great Communion of 22 different and beautiful Churches. As a Catholic I could go to a Coptic Church that was in communion with Rome and receive, I could attend the Maronites, I could attend them all and receieve the Mysteries because I was their brother in the Catholic Church whereas as an Orthodox Christian I felt so incomplete; The Holy Spirit spoke to my soul and basically said, " You were already home why look for another; your chalice was already full why exchange it for one that is half-empty." I know that's rough, but that is what the Spirit spoke in my heart as I prayed to God asking Him to help me decide whether I should go back into my wonderful Carpatho-Rusyn Church. I realize now that I was a traitor to my Greek Catholic Church; many people died because they would not convert to Orthodoxy. And I because of my weakness of charater decided to leave my precious Mother the Carpatho-Rusyn Catholic Church; to this day I grieve over it. When I read the stories of our marytrs I cry deeply. But God is indeed forgiving; I know I will never earn a crown like our beloved martyrs in the old Country. In a way my Chrismation into Orthodoxy was a sacriligious act because I had already been Chrismated in my Greek Catholic Church and one MUST never repeat the august Sacrament of Chrismation because it is a denial of the indelible Mark of the Seal of the Gift of the Holy Spirit. As a matter of fact I remember the day I was Chrismated into Orthodoxy - a dread fear came over me; I felt shame and deep sorrow. I knew it was wrong for me to do it. It was blasphemy against God and I knew it in my conscience after I was received into the OCA. To have received the fullness of the Sacrament of Chrismation in the Byzantine Church and have it repeated in Orthodoxy was a gravely immoral act. The greatest day after my Baptism in the Ruthenian Church was my reconcilation to it through Confession. Father was very gentle with me as I wept and he pronounced the Absolution and release of canonical penalties. The Holy Spirit wants me to stay in the Ruthenian Church and it is in Her arms I will lay my weary head when I die.

Glory be to Jesus Christ! Glory be to Him Forever!

In Mary,

Robert Horvath

Alex - you know I am RC - but I offer this answer (if you had asked this question of me)..

Providence had made me a Catholic - under the Bishop of Rome - Providence being the expressed will of God - I would have to ignore the will of God to become an Orthodox. I would say the same if I were an Orthodox asked about becoming a Catholic.

The �grass is greener in the next field� is a syndrome quite prevalent among the Protestants.

That syndrome revolves around viewing the church as a means of behavioral modification. If one feels his behavior has not been modified or changed enough - then look for a better therapy or �school�. And that is what the church - is not.

Holiness does not follow upon intellectually understanding - nor being taught - nor learning the proper codes and rules and formula. It is that understanding follows holiness.

Buddhist, Muslim, Jew, Baptist, Catholic, Orthodox - there is only one thing which makes anyone holy and it is available to all - that is - cooperation with Providence. �He who does my Father�s will - is my mother, my brother, my sister - my family member.� That - will - is vibrant and alive and - now - in everyday living and events.

�Become holy right where you are.� is good advice.

It is so sad that the doctrine of Providence - what it is and what it does - is so forgotten in the Church East and West. On the other hand - finding it is the secret of the few saints amoung the hords of church members.

Dear Friends,

Thank you for sharing your perspectives!

The view that we are already Orthodox and that communion with Rome is the crown of Orthodoxy is an interesting one . . .

I know, as perhaps some of you may, know people who see themselves as Orthodox with their being in communion with Rome as a "Latinization . . ."

Others would reject the idea of their being "Orthodox" altogether. We have a fellow in our parish who insists on crossing out the "all you Orthodox Christians" in our Divine Liturgy pew-books . . .

This whole issue among Eastern Catholics reminds me of what Fr. Duddleswell of the TV series, "Bless me Father" once said of a Protestant man he married to a Catholic woman:

"He's nice enough, but he's a Protestant, and you never know what they'll do next!"

I was egged on to use the St Herman Orthodox Calendar by Fr. Serge Keleher.

When I found the entry of the celebration of the return to Orthodoxy of "3 million uniates" in the 19th century, I asked Father about that.

"Oh yes, that . . ." Fr. Keleher said.

"I cross that out each year . . ."

Alex

Dear Administrator,

So, for you, culture is based on food etc.?

You must be an American then!

Alex

This is really a complicated and delicate issue. I do consider myself Orthodox in communion with Rome. Although I do feel that at times Rome does not give the proper cosideration to us and at times I feel as if Rome has betrayed us. What keeps me in communion with Rome and makes me love and respect our Orthodox brothers and sisters that are not in communion with us,is that there are very nice and holy people on both sides and let's not foget those who stink as well, you'll find them everywhere.
It would be very difficult for me to say what would make me leave, but there is aways the possibility.
Lauro

My parish only prays twice, it seems

I would think that all Orthodox in communion with Rome would believe this to be the case. Is this not so? If not, why not leave for Orthodoxy outside communion with Rome?

ChristTeen287

Dear ChristTeen,

I'm just making the point that there are Eastern Catholics who would rather be caught dead than define themselves as "Orthodox" anything.

Sad, but true.

Alex

Well that is the REAL Orthodoxy