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Joined: Dec 2003
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Dear Mike:

The Ukranian Divine Liturgy that I attended was indeed concelebrated. If the sign is indeed present in the liturgy, then I must of somehow missed it. It's possible that I may not have recognized where it was inserted due to my inability to understand Ukranian (or Slovanic, not really sure which language was used smile ) I do however recollect that no one came from the altar to give me or the people around me the sign.

Since the priests exchange it, do the people also receive it? In our Church, the whole Church receives it in an orderly fashion from the front to the back. In the Maronite Church, I noticed the overall similarity between their sign and ours except for minor differences such as the way the hand was folded during the exchange from one to the other.

I am a little unclear regarding your last paragraph. Is the monastic tradition you refer to applicable only among the monks or is it also practiced on the parish level among the people? This practice of the sign as you describe it is very different than what I'm used to. Not that one is better than the other, just two different methods of exchanging peace I guess smile

Also, I am unclear about your last sentence regarding the image of the Lamb. Is this also part of the Ukranian sign of peace? For us, that just signifies a devotional practice and not part of the liturgical sign of peace.

By the way, one of the celebrants I saw there was Fr. Andriy Chirovsky of the Sheptytsky Institute, who came to San Diego for a visit. He spoke about the Creed on that Sunday, and I noticed his teaching was very well put together. He spoke in both English and Ukranian(Slovanic?).

God bless,

Rony

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Dear Rony,

Yes, the sign of peace would only be exchanged among the concelebrating clergy and monastics.

However, one of our parishes here has adopted the Finnish Orthodox Church's suggestion for the sign of peace exchanged among the laity as well.

At that parish, everyone says to one another: Christ is among us! He is and will be! And then the liturgical kiss.

The Lamb is not a part of the Ukrainian or any other tradition.

I know that the Synod of Milan passes around an Icon of Christ for people to reverence with a kiss as their form of the Sign of Peace.

And Fr. Andriy Chirovsky is related to me by marriage.

My family doesn't accept "dolts" you know! smile smile

Alex

Joined: Dec 2003
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Dear Alex:

Thanks for the additional info. It's nice to have a priest in the family smile

God bless,

Rony

Joined: Mar 2004
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RP Offline
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Orthodox Catholic,
the recitation of psalms and Vespers in church with the people had started in the early 1900's. Priests were being encouraged to hold Solemn Vespers for holidays and Sundays and most RC parishes had this by Vatican II. Also the Hours in the West have been shortened because many ancient texts were thrown out such as the daily recitation of the Athanasian Creed and the time for the saying of all 150 psalms before Vatican II was a week and now is a month.

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Quote
Originally posted by RP:
the recitation of psalms and Vespers in church with the people had started in the early 1900's. Priests were being encouraged to hold Solemn Vespers for holidays and Sundays and most RC parishes had this by Vatican II.
RP,

Not sure where you were attending church in the era prior to Vatican II, but "most" RC parishes in the US were NOT holding Solemn Vespers for Sundays or holydays days in my experience.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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I
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[What follows is of no importance, but it brought a smile to my face, so others may also enjoy it.] Sometimes the electronic gremlins can do odd things. Looking just now at the forum list, I noticed what appeared for a moment to be a new topic: "Orthodox Influence on Irish Melkite"!
Incognitus

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