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Hi everyone,

I had a question about the crown traditionally worn by the Coptic Pope of Alexandria.

As I understand it, the wearing of the imperial type crown by our Byzantine Bishops comes from the time when they traditionally began to take over civil functions, after the fall of the Empire.

My question is, where did this tradition come from in the Coptic Church? As a guess, I'm thinking it may have been borrowed from the Byzantine Churches, but does anyone happen to know for sure?

Also, from all the pictures I've seen, it seems that wearing the crown is reserved for the Coptic Pope only, and not the Coptic bishops. Am I wrong on this one?

Anyway, thanks alot. I'd be really glad if someone could enlighten me!

In Christ,
Mike (poor sinner)

Mike,

Actually Coptic use of the Mitre predates that of the Byzantines. St. Cyril was granted its use by Pope St. Celestine I when he represented him at the Council of Ephesus. It was gradually granted by him to his bishops.

Coptic bishops do use the mitre, however, only in their own eparchy and never when the Patriarch is present. At these times they replace it with an amice-like hood similar to the masnaphtho of the Syrians.

As far as the mitre in the Byzantine tradition, it was not used until the fall of Constantinople. It was granted to the patriarch since he was now civil head of the Greek millet, as well as patriarch. It was not granted to all bishops until the 18th century. Interestingly, one of the grievances of the Greeks at Florence was the Latin use of the mitre. The Greeks boasted of their humility in celebrating the liturgy with uncovered heads. Guess we gave that boast up.

In Christ,
Lance, deacon candidate

Dear Lance,

I guess that makes the Bishops' crowns a Latinization. Anyone for telling them to lose the headgear? Let's get back to that Old Time Religion!

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

Dear John,

Actually, this points more to our penchant of imposing Byzantinizations rather than any kind of Latinization!

The Copts and Ethiopians were heavily influenced by the Judaism of the early Church (and in Ethiopia's case, its own Judaism). To pray with covered head was and is very important to the Alexandrian Church and Rite.

The Celts themselves borrowed from the Copts and introduced Crowns into their Church and Rite as well, as the Lorrha-Stowe Liturgy and Missal indicate.

The use of Crowns is something that meshes well with the idea of Christians being of the "Royal Priesthood," and "Priests, Prophets and Kings."

A crowning achievement all around, would you not say ?

Alex

Dear Lance,

Thanks for the info on this one, which I was really curious about!

God bless you in your studies for the diaconate, as well!

In Christ,
Mike (poor sinner)

Alex,

Yes, the use of crowns is important, especially for those getting married. In fact, we Byzantines call it the "Crowning in Marriage" or just "Crowning." We even top our Royal Doors with crowns!


Lance,

Are you suggesting our bishops never take off their crowns at the liturgy, especially at the Anaphora?


Joe


[This message has been edited by Joe Thur (edited 06-07-2001).]

Dear Joe,

Sometimes I think that crowning ceremony went to my beloved wife's head . . .

Alex

Joe,

I am confused. The Greeks boasted their humility by having uncovered heads at the Liturgy as opposed to the haughtiness of the mitre wearing Latins.

I don't think our bishops should stop wearing mitres. I just thought it ironic that we adopted a practice we thought was Latin arrogance.

Is that what you meant?

In Christ,
Lance

The Bishops of the Coptic Orthodox Church all wear their "mitres" I think you call them (I'm used to the Arabic ) and they wear them in front of the Pope, the Pope Himself has the same mitre as them. The Bishops wear their crowns during the Liturgy, but most of them wear their normal mitre during the Liturgy. Of course, from the beginning of the Liturgy of the word until the very end of the Liturgy of the Eucharist, they do not wear the crown or mitre.

Peace and grace.
Agape,
Wak-Wak
Amen, maranatha!

Our dear Coptic Friend,

Welcome, Selam!

It is always best when a representative of the Church we are talking about can speak of on behalf of its own traditions!

Ultimately, as one Coptic priest in Jerusalem told me, the crown or mitre signifies the "Royal Priesthood" of our Lord, God and Saviour Jesus Christ, something in which all Christians share and this is the theological basis for its introduction.

We look forward to learning about the Holy Coptic Church and her traditions from you!

Tenoo oasht emmok o piekhristos new pekyot en aghathos nem pi epneuma ethowab je akee ak soati emmon nai nan!

Alex

[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

That brings up the issue of the white cloth I have seen some Copts wear during religious services. What is the tradition behind that if you please? Also, Jews and Muslims wear headcovings both in and out of religious services, why don't Chrsitians also adopt that practice or do some and others don't in some parts of the world? Please enlighten.

Dmitri

>Welcome, Selam!

"Allay sallemek!"

Thanks a lot for the warm welcome !

>Tenoo oasht emmok o piekhristos new pekyot en >aghathos nem pi epneuma ethowab je akee ak soati >emmon nai nan!

Khen omethmi, Amen! (in truth, Amen!)

My real name is Mina, but I use the pseudoname "Wak-Wak" as I have been called for years by friends and family - even my priest's wife (my priest has yet to call me that ).

Dmitri, are you asking about the white cloths that the priest wears, or that the women wear?

Peace and grace.
Agape,
Wak-Wak
Amen, maranatha!

The priest. I was also under the impression that laymen wear them as well, but I may be mistaken.

Dmitri

Dear Mina, our Coptic Brother,

So you are named for the famous St Mina of Egypt?

I once read that all the Coptic Popes of Egypt have been inscribed into the calendar of Saints - is this true?

Also, is Pope Cyrillos VI a saint already? Is his veneration public in any way?

Alex

CIX!

Then again of course, is the Armenian practice of having all priests wear Byzantine-style mitres, and having their bishops wear Latin-style mitres...

I'm wondering if I can become a Mitred Reader...

*GRIN*

Just my two cents!

Edward