www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Is Your Church Always Locked ?

Mike:
Thanks. I was just hoping for a moment that there was some error. Probably not.
Iconophile:
Yes, I too have gone into a church at four pm on a Sunday for some peaceful prayer, only to be astounded at the LOUD barrage of sound - unbelievable - I had to exit the church immediately. "What was THAT?" I said to someone there, pointing to the front of the church near the altar. "Oh, they're practicing for the next Mass, the "Teen" Mass." I ran hurriedly out. It was pretty deafening.
CS

Christ is Risen!! Indeed He is Risen!!!

Unfortunately, the problem of vandalism seems to be universal. I belong to a country parish that has an entrance that cannot easily be seen by the neighbors and is away from the rectory and office. Our new pastor tried to leave it open and is going back to the previous pastor's habit of keeping it locked but offering a key to anyone who wants to go over to pray. Too many problems with people trying to vandalize the property. In my mother's church, 100 miles to the north and much more rural, they had a problem with kids pouring the altar wine around and dissolving the altar breads with water and wine, people taking small candles and lighting them in the confessionals, etc. So the sacristy is now deadbolted and the place is locked down more often than not.

A priest friend of mine told me that he had some of his vestments partially burned in his sacristy before he found them and put out the fire. So much for rural areas.

I also talked to a priest in a Ukrainian Orthodox parish when I worked in the Philadelphia region many years ago. Seems someone walked in and took all their Chalice sets one day: all made in the Russian Empire before the Revolution and considered quite valuable. He definitely locked his church after that.

And why? Guess I'll save that one for the Good Lord.

In Christ,

BOB

What about vandalism from within? A fellow seminarian friend of mine, who arrived at his first parish assignment (Latin), discovered one of the sisters throwing out all the pre-Vatican II vestments. He later went back to the dumpster behind the parish and took them back. One Lenten vestment was all in purple and gold with hand-embroidered images of Christ. His own vestment maker figured it would have cost at least around $10,0000 to reproduce today.

What about all those antimensions we keep hearing about being sold on e-bay? How in creation do they get on the market? Another fellow seminarian from Ohio found a Greek Catholic antimension in his parish garbage can (Latin) in Columbus, Ohio after they were doing some spring cleaning. It was signed by Bishop Basil Takach for the community of Columbus, Ohio!

How do these things happen?

Don't relics and blessed items have any value?

Joe

Joe

You ask about vandalism from within ? As far as I'am concerned it's the worst kind of all, because it comes from those entrusted to be our spiritual leaders. When Cardinal Cody took over the Archdiocese of Chicago in 1964, one of his first acts was to remove all statues and stained glass windows from Holy Name Cathedral (the interior is now hideous) Actually the stained glass windows weren't just removed, they were shattered and consigned to the garbage can. Following the Cardinal's lead the Pastor of the very beautiful church of St Anthony of Padua at 28th-Wallace, organized a group of men from his parish to take sledge hammers and demolish the church's magnificent side altars to Our Blessed Mother and St Joseph. Do such men truly love Our Saviour ? I think not.

P.S. A demented man who urinates in Holy water is less offensive than a Cardinal who orders the destruction of images of Our Saviour.

Dear Lawrence,

Is the Cardinal's full name "Wild Bill" Cardinal Cody?

Paul

But there are also stories of rescues. When I was in the Roman seminary in the mid 1980s I had a friend and at every parish he was assigned to he eventually asked about the old pre-Vatican II vestments, which were usually stored somewhere in mothballs. He acquired a closet full of heavily brocaded fiddleback casubles and dalmatics. "Charlie," we asked, "What in the world are you ever going to do with those?" He would just smile.
Then one day Rome issued the indult allowing the Old Mass again and the now-Father Charles Pope had enough vestments to equip a full altar of celebrants and servers. If any of you ever attend the monthly High Mass at Old St Mary's in DC you will see the fruit of Charlie's foresight.

Dear iconophile,

Actually, the two girls really were on drugs and have been formally charged by the parish.

Alex

Dear Icon:

Fr. Charles' foresight equals that of His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, for he has been a "Pope" before, now, and forever!

Amado

P.S. I hope to see Fr. Charles "in action" when my family is in DC this June.

Dear Friends,

The idea of vandalism from within reminds me of the true story of the theft of a ciborium from a Church in Italy in the 19th century, I believe, that was written up by Joan Carroll Cruz in her "Eucharistic Miracles."

The thief slid the Hosts in the ciborium into the parish poor box on his way out with it . . .

The next day, the local bishop called for public prayer to find the Hosts etc.

The Hosts were later discovered caught in the cob-webs surrounding the opening of the poor box - obviously, donations for the poor were, well, poor in that parish . . .

As the Hosts were stained, the bishop ordered them to be placed in a glass container on the Altar for public worship until such time that the Hosts would naturally decompose - and would, at that point, cease to be the Holy Eucharist.

And those Hosts have miraculously remained in pristine condition for all this time and are to this day worshipped as miraculous - Bl. Pope John XXIII visited the church where they are kept after he was elected Pope.

Alex

Dear Friends,

Let's talk a bit about the differences between Latin Catholics visiting Churches during the week and Eastern Orthodox/Eastern Catholics doing so?

The Latin Catholics see such visits as visits to the Blessed Sacrament to adore Christ in the Holy Eucharist.

In Orthodox countries I've visited, the people come to church during the week to pray, light candles before the icons, to kiss the icons and the like.

And there would be EC's who would visit chapels and churches for both purposes.

In the Eastern Churches, one would want to visit a church not only to pray, but to reverence icons and light candles - and if they cannot owing to security issues, how does this "take away" from the point of it all, if it does?

Could laity come together at special times in such chapels to pray the Office together or parts of the Office? Would that be allowed?

We all want to have a "prayer nook" wherein we may keep in touch with God in our special way.

What are some ways that we can do this at work, as well as at home, and when travelling?

I've seen an "Orthodox travelling worship kit" - what do you think of something like that?

Just wondering out loud . . .

Alex

Christ is risen!! Indeed He is risen!!!

Alex:

I was given a small set of icons, hinged together, for traveling. They're about an inch and a half wide and two and a half inches high. They're great for taking along when traveling to turn a strange room into another corner of Heaven.

I, too, have seen an antique home shrine with icons that originated in Russia before the Revolution. It folded up so that it looked like a carved oak box, but opened to have two hinged panels flank a central Pantocrator icon. The top was hinged so that it folded upward so that a cross hung over all. Quite impressive.

Joe:

I couldn't agree with you more. I rescued a set of altar stones with the relics intact and they now rest in three small Orthodox churches that did not have relics in their altar tables. I also rescued some vestments that I gave to a friend who was in a High Church Anglican parish: small and poor, but very appreciative.

My pastor many years ago left a very impressive collection of chalices that he had been given as gifts throughout his priesthood to our parish when he retired. When the next pastor was there for awhile they all disappeared. Go figure.

This past week our local newspaper featured an Old Roman Catholic church that has been formed in our area. The bishop wore a set of vestments made in France over a hundred years ago and they are still in excellent condition. He told the reporter that he had bought them in a thrift shop. I've also come across Orthodox vestments and the coverings for the Chalice and Star Cover, as well as veils.

I'm with you, though. Even though the Church is not supposed to be a museum, there is still a need for reverence for those items consecrated to the Lord's use alone. (I was taught that vestments were supposed to be burned if they were no longer useable or to be used. So much for that.)

In Christ,

BOB

Dear Bob,

You're one cool dude, man!!

Alex

Alex

I'll have to disagree with your assessment of the differences between EC's and LC's visiting churches. When visiting Churches, devout LC's will stop and pray at every statue from the vestibule right up to the altar, or if they're a little less devout (or in a hurry) just maybe one of Our Lord and Our Lady, not just the Blessed Sacrament.

Dear Lawrence:

I know that finding a church that is open in my part of the world is difficult, although most make extra effort on Holy Thursday/Good Friday. Around here, the fear is mostly theft or even desecration. Sadly, I think both are possible. There are usually sign up sheets for people who are willing to schedule prayer time to make sure there is a parishioner on hand to observe. This goes on all night at my parish, so that the Tomb is always watched. Someone has to sign for every time slot.

The priests and deacons I know are really overly scheduled. I used to work next door to a little Italian church. I'd call it a marginal neighborhood. The pastor there is from a missionary order and is a wonderful man - but we all knew that he treated his M-F office workers equally to his real parishioners. He could only leave the church open for a little before and after his noon Mass, despite his desire to accomodate everyone. It wasn't that he didn't want people to be able to come in and pray. He just knew that there were many scary folks in the neighborhood who might well mess up God's house or steal from it - and that it wouldn't be a good idea to leave anyone or anything in there unattended. And like most priests he had sick calls and meetings and had to run around most of the day. He was apologetic about the need to lock things up, but he really had no choice.

Even the suburban RC church that I used to live by and that was in a very nice neighborhood had interesting problems. The church was stolen from several times and could only be open limited hours when the office was also open. The poor box had to be removed after every Mass - it was stolen three or four times that I know of. If you wanted to light a candle, you had to pay at the office, because the candle payments were stolen. Interestingly, the thief was caught - he wasn't poor, he was a regular guy who was a clepto and the priests didn't like to prosecute after they found out that he needed treatment. I shudder to mention it, but once in awhile, there was a woman I could only describe as some sort of "priestess" who used to come in and engage in odd rituals in the side, Marian chapel until she was gently removed. I have no idea what she was actually doing. It was weird. But the priests knew she was there and how to deal with her. She was unusual, but extremely polite.

I was shocked when I visited a small church in Ontario near a touristy area and found it open. In most of my experience, which was mostly urban or close-in suburban, churches just had to be locked unless they could find someone to effectively be there to stand guard all day. And like you, Lawrence, I'm still fairly young and once in awhile I just want to go in a church and talk to God and reflect and it would be nice to be able to do that with more ease.

Dear Lawrence,

That's O.K., Big Guy, I was asking, not telling . . .

Alex