www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Pope to add 'luminous' mysteries to the Rosary

Dear Friends,

I've been out of town and am only now able to appreciate all of your wonderful thoughts.

Alex, you out-do yourself as always. Do you pray the rosary in a specific language for different occasions, or just how the Spirit moves you?

Christ our light, continue to guide us!

- Henri

Dear Henri,

You are too kind, but the Psalter of the Mother of God is very important to me and the Pope's recent letter really does bring it all together for me, while answering questions I didn't realize I had!

What I do now is use more than one language in saying the Rosary, English, Ukrainian, Church Slavonic.

There is something about Church Slavonic, especially the Our Father, Hail Mary and the Jesus Prayer that reall speaks to me and to friends who use it too.

The Psalms in Church Slavonic always fill me with an extra sense of awe.

Some have said the KJV is like that, allowing one to even memorize it quickly.

I understand that Thomas Cranmer memorized the whole Bible in under a year this way . . .

Alex

Folks,
As usual I am coming to this discussion a bit behindhand and this time not a little confused
The first post here gave [ though I can't get it now] the link that said these new Mysteries would be meditated upon on Saturdays - this also seems to be in the Scottish Catholic Press.

But me being me, and as I love my Rosary Meditations, I downloaded the actual Document from the Vatican Site - and what do I find there ? The Holy Father made the suggestion that these new Mysteries should be used on Thursdays [Distribution of time Section 38].

So where did Saturday come from ? Honest I'm not trying to pick a fight - I'm just puzzled. I've already croissed swords with one person about this and was told "who downloads from the Web - even if it is the vatican Site ?"

Heeeelp please

May Our Blessed Lady, Mary ever Virgin, Mother of us all and my Mistress keep us all in Her most tender care and lead us to Her most wonderful Son

Angela

I personally think the original idea of Saturdays for these new mysteries is better than the Thursdays suggested in the actual papal document.

Dear Qathuliqa,

Actually, I would disagree, Catholicos!

If one were doing the full Rosary, those mysteries would come in between the Joyful and Sorrowful Mysteries, as you know.

For those (wimps ) who do only five decades a day , the Luminous Mysteries on Thursday serve as an important prelude to the Sorrowful Mysteries on Friday.

Thursday is the day of the Mystical Supper and the Luminous Mysteries celebrate it as well.

Sorry, you're way off base here, Big Guy!

And besides, a Catholicos ain't no Pope!

Alex

With apologies for being slightly off topic - but it still has to do with the Rosary

BUT

Perhaps our esteemed Orthodox Catholic could answer a question I have on something I have just remembered from my last[ sorry latest but not my last I trust ] trip to Lourdes.

Pray oh keeper of knowledge

Why does the statue of Our Mother in the Grotto hold a Rosary of 6 decades ??

I await your answer with eagerness

Angela

The original article I posted was based on information leaks, and apparently they got it wrong.

The Pope's official apostolic letter clears up any confusion. I believe there is a "holier logic" to placing these mysteries on Thursday rather than Saturdays, for reasons already expressed by Alex.

Additionally, praying these mysteries have really sparked something beautiful in my cycle of prayer. If anyone feels so moved to try incorporating the rosary and these new mysteries into their prayer life - I highly recommend.

Ever Blessed and Immaculate Theotokos, pray for us!

- Henri

- Henri

Oh Henri - I do so agree now I have, please excuse the awful expression [but it is accurate],got to grips with them.

And the first time I did so I used a very special Rosary too - a truly blessed experience

May Our Blessed Lady, Mary ever Virgin , Mother of us all and my Mistress keep us all in Her most tender care and lead us to Her most wonderful Son

Angela

Dear Angela,

The six decade Rosary is the Brigittine Rosary of the 63 Hail Mary's in honour of the 63 years of our Lady's life on earth.

As you know, the Franciscans have a 72 Hail Mary Rosary and believe she lived 72 years, but it is of later provenance.

The Brigittine Rosary actually has 18 mysteries where they add one additional decade to each of the three Dominican groups, but they always kept their rosary at six decades with three introductory Hail Mary beads at the beginning - unlike the Dominicans and others who wear and use 15 decade habit rosaries.

The Dominican Rosary actually borrowed the three Hail Mary beginning from the Brigittine Rosary - it was never part of the Dominican rosary "rite."

Those who say the Pope changed the Dominican rosary etc. have no real idea about the constant "borrowing" of one religious Order's traditions from another's.

The Carmelite Order was popular in France and especially in the area where St Bernadette Soubirous experienced the apparitions of Our Lady of Lourdes.

The Brigittine Rosary is the official habit Rosary of the Carmelites and was also extremely popular as a Rosary in honour of the years of our Lady's life on earth.

St Louis de Montfort mentions this Rosary in his "True Devotion to Mary" as an excellent additional devotional practice in honour of the Mother of God.

Alex

Now why could I not have got that answer over here ?? Just musing aloud. Even the Clergy in my Parish could not answer it - admitted they had no idea.

And a Ukie [ admittedly a fellow slave ] comes up with the answer just like that. Mind you I expected to get the answer this way.

Thank you Alex - the walking encyclopaedia

Dear Angela,

You must have me confused with Joe Thur or Stuart!

I'm not nearly as smart as they - although I think I'm way cuter

Alex

Alex, I was cleaning out bookshelves and noticed I have as extra copy of "Five for Sorrow, Tne for Joy"...would you by any chance want it? Your wanna be Ukie friend in Kansas. Don

Bless me a sinner, Father Don!

You are too kind to me, but I already have two copies!!

A marvellous book, no?

I once saw Neville Ward on TV joining with other members of the Ecumenical Society of the Blessed Virgin Mary in praying the Rosary.

Your humble beadsman,

Alex

Actually, I would disagree, Catholicos!

Oh no, Alex and I are gonna joust! :p

If one were doing the full Rosary, those mysteries would come in between the Joyful and Sorrowful Mysteries, as you know.

Of course.

For those (wimps ) who do only five decades a day , the Luminous Mysteries on Thursday serve as an important prelude to the Sorrowful Mysteries on Friday.

Thursday is the day of the Mystical Supper and the Luminous Mysteries celebrate it as well.

True, but this is where I have a problem...it skews the traditional order of things. The Passion needs to be on Friday, and the Resurrection on a Sunday, and from Monday to Wednesday, the traditional Joyful-Sorrowful-Glorious pattern has been said. If you put the Luminous Mysteries on Thursday (for the reasons you and the Pope cited), what do we see for the rest of the week? The middle of Christ's life (more or less) on Thursday, His Passion on Friday, His Birth on Saturday, and then His Resurrection on Sunday. Quite a bit of jumping around for the weekend. :p

When the reports of the new mysteries came out, they said that the day for these new mysteries would be Saturday. I thought this was appropriate, because Thursday, Friday, and Sunday would be in the traditional (and also chronological order). My justification for putting the new mysteries on Saturdays is that I've always thought of Saturday as the day of the Sabbath, the day after the Passion and Death of the Lord. The apostles and the others are secluded from the outside world, and what are they thinking about? Surely they could all still be reeling in shock from the past twenty-four hours, but I like to think they were thinking about their Master's life. Perhaps their minds went back to that Last Supper...perhaps they were thinking of His parables and miracles and His preaching...or maybe that wedding feast where He changed water into wine...maybe He'd told them about His Temptation, maybe they'd witnessed His Baptism? I don't know, it just seems to me that Saturday is ideally suited for that sort of reflection, for entering into that sort of spirit with the apostles, as they wait for Sunday, and for the Resurrection. Therefore, it is my opinion that Saturday is a better day for these new mysteries than Thursday. It does less "violence" to the traditional ordering of the events, and promotes just the sort of meditative reflection that (I believe, anyway) the apostles may have done in the hours between Friday and Sunday.

Sorry, you're way off base here, Big Guy!

Well, when one's theological perspectives are shaped in part by a "Headless" Saint Severus, among other "heretics", what do you expect, O Alex, Great among the Chalcedonians? :p

And besides, a Catholicos ain't no Pope!

True, but Catholic is practically my whole name. That's more than I can say for "Pope". :p