www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West The great - divide

Yesterday there was no difference between East and West, Orthodox and Catholic. There was no division caused by - words.

I, along with several Roman Catholic, attended the ordination to priest of a friend Orthodox deacon. As deacon Serge also taught Patristic at the local Roman Catholic seminar.

Held in the local Russian Orthodox church, officiated by the Bishop of Boston� it was beautiful and I admit that while taking photos from the choir loft, I choked up at one point knowing, as the new priest knelt with his head resting on the altar face hidden in his hands, what he must feel. I could feel what he felt. I told him later how I almost choked up and cried and he said �I was crying!�

In attendance were several Roman Catholics and the beauty of the inside of the church seemed just so much more beautiful with the Roman Catholic priest in collar and a Franciscan nun in brown.

There was someone new in the choir and she had never seen me before - when she asked �who is that man crawling on all fours?� (up to the rail to take a picture in a way not to disturb anyone - so I thought) she was told �Oh - that is just - a bug.� (snicker).

After Liturgy we all received the Bishop�s blessing (kiss the cross and the bishops hand) and hugs all around.

Yesterday East and West, Orthodox and Catholic - were united in a celebration of common priesthood.

Division? what division??? what shism? The heart could not see any. There was none to be found.

I love New England.

-ray

Dear Ray K,

How blessed you were to be there!

In Christ,
Alice

Dear Ray,

I felt like this when I attended the Orthodox ordination of a friend who was formerly an Anglican.

I too felt there were no walls at the Liturgy . . . until one priest came up and said, "Only those who are Orthodox Christians may attend Holy Communion!"

Then I realized the great divide that still separates us.

As an Eastern Catholic, I feel "pulled" in two directions at times like those.

Alex

Are there instances of inter-Communion on occasions like this in the U.S.? I have heard of such in Eastern Europe. Despite the instruction to receive only in one's proper camp, how is it usually handled?

While attending Liturgy in the ROC, I know the rules, and I abide by them. If my mass for the day is Orthodox Liturgy I usually have time to pop into the local RC on the way home and recieve communion.

I do not be-grudge it. I see it as the way God wants it to be for now. By abiding by the rules for communion I am abiding by what God desires.

-ray

I absolutely agree and would never dream of violating this sacred trust. Obedience to the norms of our faith is obedience to the Lord himself. However, I have heard of someone who claims that she had permission to receive Holy Communion in either tradition. I wondered if this was a common thing, or a vagrant abuse.

Most likely a confused person. I, too, have heard people say this. I have seen it in print in Roman Catholic Churches that Catholics AND Orthodox may Commune...it's OK with the RCs, fine print reading "check with the rules of your Church". Needless to say, it is not allowed for anyone but Orthodox Christians to commune in Orthodox Churches in America, and Orthodox Christians are not allowed to commune anywhere other than in a canonical Orthodox Church in America.

Dear Ray,

My problem with this approach is that I will not attend a liturgy where I would not be considered in full communion with the church in which it is being served - and where, consequently, I would be excluded from Communion.

It is not just a question of "rules" but of the experience of Communion which is more, but includes, the reception of the Eucharist.

I'm off to Florida, so that's about as much as your going to get out of me today! )

Alex

Reminds me of the old protestant hymn we use to sing in our Church from the 1700's.
In Christ there is no east or west. In him ho south or north. But one great fellowship of love through out the whole wide earth.
In him shall true hearts every where their high communion find; his service is the golden cord close binding all mankind.
Stephanos I

Communion wise I agree. But there have been many times I felt the things the others have at an apostolic church. Of course I only receive Communion at an Orthodox church, but the Grace of God is powerful and can be felt many places. Ray, I am so happy you could be a part of that ceremony, I can only imagine!!!! Praise God!!!

Brother Alex, enjoy your time in Florida and give us a report please.

Peace and Grace
Michael

Yeah. Intercommunion canonically is a no-no except when there is no minister of ones own rite around (like if I, a Catholic, were to be deep in the bowels of Russia) or in an emergency.

What is the division? It breaks my heart, but the division is a division of communion. I've been reading a lot of Augustin's letters recently, especially to those not in union with the Catholic church (as he calls her). The problem is that communion does not exist between the two! I think that it is bogus, I think that it is wrong, I think that those responsible for it (and even myself, in as much as I am culpable) have a lot of explaining to do. I love the orthodoxo like no other Christians, but I must admit that there is a break of the bond of charity between the Catholic and Orthodox. That's the thing. One can go to georgous and beautiful liturgies in many Churches out of the Catholic communion. One can find that the Spirit of God is not apt to avoid such meetings. But even such, one must feel the breach of the charity of union and it must rend ones heart and send his sobbing to the ground. Shall the seamless garment of Christ's robe be rent? God forbid! But schisms must come, and perhaps one day the unity which subsists in the Catholic church will again exist in all Christians.

May God grant the newly-ordained Fr. Halvorsen many years!

You are one smart cookie!

http://homepage.mac.com/david_zavednak/Church_News/PhotoAlbum47.html

(Our mutual friendship is not in any way an endorsement of my personal views).

-ray

While I believe that the schism exists to teach all of us humility I wonder when we are going to learn the lesson?

Dan Lauffer

Dear RayK,

Albanians all over the place that day.....I was bound to know about it.

In Christ,
Andrew