www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Proselytism?

I have just stumbled into the website of the Greek Orthodox Church in the Philippines. I was wondering still if the MP accuses Vatican of proselytism and the EP sees the Philippines as a mission territory and has already an established exarchate, then what does this make? News in the previous years said that the establishment of the GO parish was to care for Greek ex-patriates living/working/studying here in the Philippines and now the country became a mission territory.

http://www.cs.ust.hk/faculty/dimitris/metro/Phil_history.html
http://www.cs.ust.hk/faculty/dimitris/metro/Phil_major_events.html
http://www.cs.ust.hk/faculty/dimitris/metro/Phil_parish_activities.html
http://www.cs.ust.hk/faculty/dimitris/metro/Phil_back_clergy.html

Rather, a new site because last year it was not online yet

Dear elexie,

The difference here and in other places being that the Orthodox Church is approached by Western Christians seeking to become Orthodox.

The Orthodox don't proselytize - people are drawn to its liturgical, inner life and are converted by that.

And the EP and Rome have a good relationship. When a group of Spanish and Portuguese RC's wanted to join Orthodoxy, Elder Rome asked New Rome not to accept them - New Rome agreed not to.

Those Iberians are now with the ROCOR (yes?).

Alex

I know that this is a late reply to something written several months ago.

I just wanted to add a few observations of my own, however. (I do not intend with my observations to hurt anyone's feelings or anything of the sort.)

I know for a fact that back in the 90's the EP had a parish in Barcelona, and that at least some of the Roman Catholic converts to Orthodoxy said that their RC priest had counseled them that it was OK for them to become Orthodox.

What about books like Two Paths and The Truth which are clearly aimed at converting RC's to the Orthodox Church?

Last I heard, the Antiochian Archdiocese has a Missions and Evangelism conference every year.

The Orthodox Church has become very evangelistic and mission minded, especially in converting Western Christians. In Italy there are converts from Roman Catholicism to Orthodoxy. There is an EP priest in Sardegna that is a former RC.

I don't know in how many of these situations the people approached the Orthodox themselves, or if they were approached by the Orthodox, but it is clearly the case that at least in some circles, the Orthodox see it as their duty to do whatever they can to convert RC's to Orthodoxy. I have personally seen this in action before my very eyes on many many occasions. For instance, if someone is visiting an Orthodox Church, people assume that it's because they want to become Orthodox, and the Orthodox immediately upon meeting them, steer (even if gently) the conversation towards trying to convert them. I'm not saying that this is automatically wrong, but I just wanted to show that it is a common occurance.

The Orthodox do not simply mind their own business and wait until they are approached by others who want to convert. Perhaps this was true 25 years ago, but not anymore.

Just my own observations. No intent to be inflammatory or cause any ruffled feathers.

(I like you Alex, and I enjoy reading your posts.)

"I know for a fact that back in the 90's the EP had a parish in Barcelona..."

The parish is Barcelona is now a parish of the Serbian Patriarchate (as near as I can figure...I've been there, but there was no service that week)...and has its own web-site (although not much has changed on the site since it began about three or four years ago).

http://members.tripod.com/~ortodoxia/

+Padre Archabbad Gregorio

Dear Archabbad :

I'm looking at your signature and thinking, hmmm ... what has happened in Abouna Gregory's life? ... need I congratulate him?

Drank the first coffee of the day, came back to the screen, and said, ... duh

"I know for a fact that back in the 90's the EP had a parish in Barcelona..."

Many years,

Neil

waiting to see if the good Abouna's signature likewise rises to the spirit of the day on the 17th

Of course the Orthodox Churches don't proselytize. "Proselytism", you see, is defined as what other people do, not what the Orthodox do!
Incognitus

Certainly the Orthodox do not go as the Protestants or the Jehova's Witnnesses ringing on each house they find to convince you. But, for example in Mexico (sorry for always referring to Mexico, but its where I live) the OCA has its Cathedral in a part of the city near the airport where I truly doubt there are any russians or greeks or any other person of Orthodox origin. In fact most of the people who attend the OCA Cathedral are truly Mexicans; there was something I thought kind of weird, when you enter there is a huge image of the Virgin of Guadalupe... I did not know any Orthodox would believe in her (obviously I was wrong).

alex,

I will disagree with you.

The orthodox church does proselytize.
In the Church messenger publication of the ACROD their are pictures of groups who go out to spread the word.

Dear Green Coat,

I meant "in general."

The case you mention is certainly not something most Orthodox churches would do.

In Russia today, however, I hear of Orthodox groups trying to affirm Orthodox teaching against the efforts of many sects to sway the faithful.

It is inevitable that they would have to "fight fire with fire."

Alex

Those Iberians are now with the ROCOR (yes?)

The group of Spanish and Portuguese priests was not received because of the canonical territory problem with the Vatican but there were other reasons behind that. First of all it was not clear that they had been lawfuly ordained in the Roman Catholic Church (some had been linked to the "Liberal Catholic Church") and when they made a reasearch they found out that two of them had been expelled from a RC seminary before.

In communion with Old Calendarists and the Milanese Synod at first, the Orthodox priests under Metropolitan Dom Gabriel of Portugal now claim to be in communion with the Orthodox Church of Poland as a kind of extra-territory diocese.

However I've visited the site of the Polish Church and there's nothing about them, and they're not listed with the hierarchy recognized by this Church (and for example, representatives of the OCP in Moscow and other places are listed, but nothing about the Spanbish priests).

We have to find out what happened with them. Metropolitan Dom Gabriel is a very Orthodox and Nationalist man.

Alex,

Can't you ever admit you are not always 100% correct?

We have to keep you humble.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way.

I really find your post informative and enjoy them.

But you have to be more flexible

It should be clearly noted that it is okay to proselytize, if by this you mean "tell people about your love of Christ and His Church and hope and pray that they join it as well". Christ Himself commands us to do this.

Of course, that does not address the legitimate jurisdictional issue, which is more the point here. I just think it sounded like some thought the Orthodox should not be preaching the Good News!

My personal approach is that I try to explain to all non-believers and Protestants the truths of the Catholic Faith, and I pray for their conversion. With Orthodox I will dialogue with regarding our differences and how our Churches can be reunited and I pray for this corporate reunification.

Dear Green Coat,

I pray daily for the grace to be humble and flexible.

But it's particularly difficult for me . . .

That is why God sent me a wife who is perfect and reminds me of the fact every so often!

God bless,

Alex

" That is why God sent me a wife who is perfect and reminds me of the fact every so often! "

Dear Alex,

...and don't you forget that!

Alice