www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Pope & Catholics one-day Ramadan fasting!!!

Slava Jesu Kristu,

I agree with Orthodox Catholic. FAsting and prayer on a Friday that just happens to be during Ramadan seems quite appropriate. At one time, the whole of Christendom fasted on every Friday of the year. This is still an Eastern Tradition and appears to be coming back in the West. Besides, Rum, what should you care what the Pope does? No offence, but from a previous post, I didn't think you paid him any attention...

Mir S toboy,
Dmitri

Kurt --

Is a female dramatist an actor or an actress? I always thought that priestess was a descriptive term (ie, an ordained female cleric) that saved a few words, but if it offends then let it go. Perhaps I should rephrase as "Protestant female priest".

Having said that, there is absolutely no comparison between the word "priestess", which on its face means female priest quite literally, and "shaman". If it is the position of the Ruthenian Catholic metropolia that Eastern Orthodox clerics are "shamans", then I guess we face greater ecumenical challenges than I had previously thought.

Brendan

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Abdur Islamovic ]

To All:


As'salam aleikum!

My fondest memory of John Paul's visit to Cairo was his meeting with a host of Muslim clerics.


Well...contrary to public opinion in the West...these very important Muslim clerics were not living under the delusion that they were in the presence of the Great Crusader of the West whose intention was to launch the next crusade against Islam and bring destruction upon the Muslim world.

No, clearly the clerics were awe struck by his presence and it was also very evident that they shared a genuine affection for him.

It was a wonderful gathering to behold...even if only via the tele.

We are all the beloved Children of the Most High Father.

Merry Christmas!

Salam,

Abdur

Abdur Islamovic,

I take it you are a Muslim. I would love to hear your story (i.e. where you born a Muslim / Converted to Islam from something else).

God Bless

It, of course, is not.

I am glad I could enlighten you that the term you innocently may have picked up from the culture warriors is taken offensively by those it is incorrectly applied to. With that matter settled, Merry Xmas.


BTW, I did a little internet search of the word 'priestess', it use in about a 60-40 ratio was pagan religious references and social/cultural/fictional. I was well into triple digets of hits before I bored. I tried 'Christian' and 'priestess'. Same result until #26 which was a diatribe by a rightist cultural warrior.

Not a single neutral, Christian usage.

Moreover, I've seen the leading hierarchs of the Orthodox Communion pray with Protestant women clergy at gathers of the Orthodox-Protestant World Council of Churches and National Council of Churches, showing no visable discomfort or objection.

To my friend Dustin, RE: Fosdick

Oh well, we quote Berkeley and Swift too and they were all Anglicans. Fosdick did write one of my favorite Protestant hymns "God of Grace and God of Glory". And he certainly was an interesting figure vis a vis his opposition to Fundementalism.

K.

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Kurt ]

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Kurt ]

Dmitri,
If I didn't care I wouldn't have posted. What is not clear to the naive becomes the acceptable. In other words, relativism and all its nuisance. I know a few Orthodox besides the Pope that play politically correct games to express some sort of solidarity. I think this is a bunch of bs. I was told by an Orthodox bishop that the Muslims believe in the Incarnation. There is some clear evidence of the Incarnation in the Quran but the Muslims do not believe as the Christians. The Muslims have their own understanding of the false view of Christ. Do you know how misleading this can be? It is as misleading as the one day Ramadan fast. It is as misleading by offering one day Indulgences to smokers to stop smoking. Why don't the Catholics practice their fasts during Advent? Or do they not have fasting anymore with the exception of the Eastern Catholic Rites? Or is it they lost the practice of fasting during Advent?

I pray that God sends down to us Holy Fool for Christ to awaken the living dead from error.

I wonder if the Pope is planing to fast with the Hindus or Mormons. I see no reason why non-Catholic fasts should not be incorporated within Catholicism.

Rum Orthodox

We are in the season of advent. I fasted last friday and I lite my advent candles that night. What is your point? The fast was 4 peace not to accept a religious belief.

You must not be familiar with "Bishop" Jane
of the Anglican Church. Is she not a Protestant? Is she not a priestess? Therefore, you have a Protestant Priestess. I hope this helps.

Dear Robert,

Salaam. (That's about the extent of my Arabic, along with Allahu akbar.) I agree, the Koran-kissing incident with the Pope was a big mistake. Someone else made the good point that the mullahs and imams wouldn't kiss the Gospels in return, would they?

I am against this war and against demonizing Muslims and bombing Afghans in reaction to Sept. 11. I've been called anti-American for it. (Fine.) (Ironically this attempted Christian approach finds this conservative in agreement with leftist peace-and-justice types among the Latins and mainline Protestants!) My take on the war and its underlying causes can be found on my site and on lewrockwell.com. (Drop Israel, let the Palestinians take their country back and let the US stick to free trade and guarding its coasts.) The terrorists' war is on the secular West, not on Christendom... even if the former is the bastard child of the latter.

Having said that, I would have had no problem with joining in a fast on Ramadan, considering that fasting is a very Christian, indeed Catholic, Orthodox, apostolic Christian practice. That is, until I read this thread. There is no way I can join in celebrating the "revelation' of the Koran, any more than I could be rebaptized non-trinitarian fashion by the Mormons. Muhammad, like Joseph Smith, was a very smart man and the Koran seems to be his masterwork, perhaps superior to Smith's pseudo-King James-style Book of Mormon. That millions follow his teachings today is most impressive. I respect them as people and fellow monotheist "people of the Book' (believers in the God of Abraham). They may hate me but I respect them far more than I do Western liberals/seculars. But is Islam divinely instituted? No.

http://oldworldrus.com

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Serge ]

Friend,
Fasting within the practices of Christianity is the right thing to do. Not following an outdated ascetic form of Christian monasticism. The Muslims get a kick out of non-Muslims that fast with them. They think and believe in the back of their minds that their religion is the true religion and anxiously await the non-Muslims conversion. I know this better than anybody since I am an Arab. Fasting is a spiritual tool to fight & struggle against the demons. It is a Christian tool to bring us closer in our journey to Christ. The Christ of Islam is not that of Orthodoxy. Islam is a demonic religion that manipulates Christians truths to appear compelling. The Six Pillars of Islam are distortions taken from Orthodoxy. Even when they pray East it is a practice of Orthodoxy. They have managed to produce their own book, the Quran, to compete with the Injeel & Torah(New & Old Testament).
The Pope has really shocked my Orthodox sensiblities again. I wonder what's next. The Pope certainly knows what buttons to press if he wants attention.

I am of Muslim Yugoslav descent. However, my family, for the most part, is only Muslim in an ethnic sense.

I would have to consider myself a Muslim in the "making."

Salam!


Abdur

"O Patron, may I die in complete surrender to You. May I stand among the righteous."

Serge,
I am in 100% agreement with you. Speaking as an Arab Christian and not as some liberal westerner, my opposition to fasting one day of Ramadan should not be made with exception(okonomia). The Patriarchs of Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandria would not dare such a thing in the Middle East. I really do not have much of an affinity for the Ecumenical Patriarch. I know from Catholic history that the exceptions of today become acceptions of tomorrow. There was no need to follow the prescribed Islamic fast for one day. Isn't there anything left of the practices of fasting within Catholicism? Does it take a religion like Islam to restore the practice of fasting?

Kurt,
A female who is ordained to the first of the major orders is called a deaconess...so why aren't females who are elevated to the other two ranks called by the feminine form of their job title? Or is this the rotten type of PC that has destroyed mainline Protestantism? I was in the Episcopal Church myself, and know full well the slippery slope this leads to.

Look up C.S. Lewis' essay, "Priestesses in the Church?" Of course, Lewis knew a thing or two about the English language, probably more than most of us.

Also, just because the term isn't (quite obviously) used by mainline Protestants, doesn't mean its not applicable.

One other thing-characterizing your opponents as "conservatives" and "fundamentalists" is just an ad hominum arguement. "Fundamentalism" has an obvously ugly connotation in contemporary society, and, well, while I am a conservative politcially, and proud of it, that term also has negative connotations, and should be avoided in this type of situation.

In Christ,

Michael