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Abdur Islamovic

Of course you are more than welcome here! But, I was just curious what brings you to this forum?

Michael,

Explain to me again why the term 'conservative' should not be used because of your assertion it has negative connotations while 'priestess' may be used despite negative connotations?

K.

Rummy,

I am aware of a Bishop Jane Dixon of the Episcopal Church who is not a priestess and who has engaged in common prayer with Eastern Orthodox clergy. Otherwise I am not aware of what you speak. Can you find for me a public reference where a Protestant clergywoman calls herself a priestess? I hope no one has mislead you with some fabricated story.

K.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Kurt ]

Top of the mornin Kurty me lad,
You mean to tell me that "Bishop" Jane is not part of the episcopal priesthood and cannot be referenced as a priestess? Are you asking me to provide public reference from Holy Tradition(which is impossible) or from what I see-is-what-I-know(greatest distortion)? Come on now laddy, you cannot see a female in a protestant male's holy order outfit? I was not aware of any Orthodox who may have attended Jane's church for this "national" prayer. I pity the Orthodox who did. So much for Unity of the Faith!

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Rum Orthodox ]

Abdur
Salam Alikum,

Did you ever ponder that your Yugoslavian descent was that of an Orthodox Christianity? It is most likely true. I know many Arab Muslims say they have some awareness of being historical Christians or Jews. Very interesting!

wa Alikum Salam

Rummy (maybe a little too much Rum, in fact)

You ask:
Obviously, she CAN be referenced as a priestess as you just did, so yes, it is physically possible. You could also reference my mother as an old goat, though I would ask you not to. Do you have a point to all of this?


OCA and GOA hierarchs have. Are they Eastern Orthodox?

K.

[I was not aware of any Orthodox who may have attended Jane's church OCA and GOA hierarchs have. Are they Eastern Orthodox?]

As have Roman Catholic clergy. The service for the WTC at the National Cathedral in Washington is a perfect example. There were no Orthodox clergy participating there. We weren't invited.

OrthoMan

A longing for..."peace and goodwill among men."

It is time for Christians and Muslims to stand united in "making war on war."

Peace and Merry Christmas!

Abdur


Rum,

I haven't forgotten, but God has called Slavic Muslims to another (but congruent) path.

Who can fathom the mind of God?

Peace and Merry Christmas!

Abdur

Abdur,

You wrote, "I haven't forgotten, but God has called Slavic Muslims to another (but congruent) path."

If it is possible to have a peaceful discussion about why people follow Islam. I would love to here what convenced you into believing Mohammed receieved the word of God.


God Bless!

I was always taught as a child in Catechism class (The Baltemore Catechism), I am an RC, that the Muslims were the mortal enemies of the Catholic Church. I am deeply sadened by the Popes actions, will he continue to be a sign of contradiction amongst the Faithful. One second allowing the restoration of the Traditional Latin Mass and Sacraments and then praying with heretics and supporting them in their darkness. I am beginning to think he has some form of dementia, because His Holiness cannot possibly be in his right mind to be doing all of this. It just shows to what extent this New Pastoral Theology has done its best to destroy the Church; Orthodoxy is looking better and better each day; of course not Modernist Jurisdictions. I mean what is this New Evangelization stuff. Does the New Evangelization mean that you let pagans lie in their darkness and spiritual death. God help us.

Joyce,

Obviously, you do not want to be associated with John Paul II. You should act on your conscious. Good bye and Godspeed.

Orthoman,

You are right about the WTC prayer service. Metropolitan Theodosis and the Greek Archbishop wrote to the Cathedral expressing their disappointment Bishop Jane Dixon did not invite them to pray with her. They received the apology they deserved. This was a very bad mistake.

Joyce may want to avoid these jurisdictions as well, whose heads proactively seek to pray with Bishop Dixon.

K.


P.S. -- To Joyce, I have no desire to dispute her views or change her course. To others, who may have read her statement: "The Baltemore [sic]Catechism...[taught] that the Muslims were the mortal enemies of the Catholic Church" , they should know that is an untrue statement.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Kurt ]

Living Islam was really all the proof I needed to convince me that the message is true....for me.

I believe that Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all "people of the book," and that each of us has been guided by the One God to embrace a dispensation that is correct and beneficial for us as individuals and communities.

Islam is the perfect religion for me just as Chritianity is the perfect religion for you.

Truly, God loves us and cares for us.

God is Great!

Salam,

Abdur

Slava Isusu Christu!

Interesting post. I wonder how much we can get through all this.

In Christ,


Robert

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Robert ]

Kurt:

First of all I am a pre-Vatican II Catholic. I was in Catechism in the 50's and was taught that Muslims were our mortal enemies and that they were Pagans - that there God was not ours. Having seen the Church before Vatican II and after Vatican II they are like two different Churches. I have alot of pain and feel like I have been betrayed by my Church and maybe I like Orthodoxy because I feel that at least it will never change; I won't have to wake up some morning and see the ikon screens riped out and the liturgy revised and modernized. You don't know. I remember what it was like in the sixties, during all the changes. I remember my once devout priest turn into a reform-maniak, and in one night he and several parishoners ripped out the altar rail disjointed the altar from the wall, took out all of the statues and all the missals. I remember my favorite nun Sister Agnes Mary who taught my Catechism class who I thought was the very symbol of the traditional Catholic faith, come out as a lesbian and who no longer wears a habit, just a wierd cross on her lapel. I mean don't judge me! You didn't see the Church turn topsy turvey!
Practically 90% of what I was taught in Catholic School in Religion class in the 50's is no longer used or believed; when I was told that to deny one tenant of the Faith was to merit eternal damnation. Now the Pope prays with the very people who are going to be damned for believing in their heresy. Don't you see the contradiction? Don't you understand? You can sit up there on your throne and judge me, but until you have seen what I have seen you can't even say a word! I remember pulling a statue of Our Lady of the Rosary out of the dumpster of the parish Church that I grew up in, this was in 1969, after they had done all of their "renovations" and wept and wept and wept. I think I stayed home for a week and lied in my bed in total depression. That was my favorite statue as a kid. I remember seeing crucifixes and linens and vestments in bags waiting for the garbage man to take it away or the rest was given away to nursing homes and elderly Catholics. Can't you see that kind of pain I am going through. I am deeply hurt even still. I remember thinking that these religious and priests were just waiting all along to be "free" from all this "traditionalist rot" as one priest I knew put it - that they all were lying to us when we were kids!

I idolized those nuns so much and all of them have either left their orders or have are proponents of that WomanChurch heresy or are lesbians or feminists.
I am appalled at how many priests and sisters are practicing homosexuals. Now I don't care if a priest is a non-practicing homosexual, but to say that homosexual expression is a "gift" is so disgusting to me and abominable. I can't even know why a man or woman would want to degrade themselves in such a way. I love the office of the Pope, but I have no respect for the Pope for all his contradictions; I mean he is trying to please everyone whether traditional or liberal; he is trying to be a synergist and a relativist. Pope St. Pius X warned the world, I remember it being taught to me as a teenager, of Catholic liberalism and modernism and it has infiltrated the Church. I mean can you deny it! I mean listen to me. I am speaking to all the Byzantine Catholics on this Board. I mean how can you be in Communion with Latins. Everything they do liturgically in the New Order of Mass scandelizes and divides. Would you take Jesus in your hand? Would you let a woman at the altar. NO!! Then how can you maintain communion with heretics? That is what an Orthodox priest told me about Eastern Catholics. That they do not have a Orthodox theology of Communion. That to be in Communion with heretics seperated you from Orthodoxy. That is what he told me that happened at the Unias. That they may have not even changed a thing, but the moment thos Ruthenian Orthodox Churches into into Communion with the Roman Pontiff that they shared in their spiritual sickness and disease.
So again Kurt, don't judge me I have been a Catholic through all of the Changes. You are a very hateful young man.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Joyce Scott ]

"Obviously, you do not want to be associated with John Paul II. You should act on your conscious. Good bye and Godspeed."

Boy, that's a charitable way to act towards a fellow Catholic, isn't it, Kurt? Basically, "good riddance". What happened to trying to keep fellow Catholics in the fold, Kurt? Would have thought that someone like you would feel more strongly about one of your fellow Catholics joining what you once referred to as "another religion".

Brendan

Abdur,

What you say cannot be accepted by either Christians or Muslims.

God is great, so great that he sent himself to be born as one of us, as Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is referred to by Christians as the "Word of God." God wanted us to know him perfectly. So he became one of us when we had fallen. Then Jesus, who is God, told his followers to go out and convert all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This can be found in the Gospels.

This commission was then passed down by the Apostles to their successors, the bishops. These bishops went and converted all nations, and passed down the commission by means of what we Christians call "Apostolic Succession." This means that God provided a visible symbol of who has the authority to preach his word; it also is a "sacrament" (a way by which God meets us in our physical reality, such as baptism) in which the Holy Spirit is passed down from one generation to the next.

Islam came into the picture independent of this passing down of God's word. It cannot be true becuase God has already established the last prophet--Jesus Christ--by himself becoming a prophet! he then remains with us by being the Church--which we Christians believe is the body of Christ in the sense that where the Church is, Christ is present to this very day! So Islam, no matter how sincere its followers are, is NOT truth. Jesus Christ is TRUTH, and He gave us a Church--the Catholic Orthodox Church--to bear his presence in the world.

I don't judge Mohammed--I don't know what made him preach his religion. But it is not reconcilable with TRUTH which is Jesus Christ.

anastasios