www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West More - FREDERICA MATHEWES-GREEN

Ah... but here - is - the center of the problem.

She� and others like her - create - the problem. There is no problem - until someone "as smart as me" comes along and convinces us that there IS a problem - and we - should follow their advise (buy my books) in order to correct � the problem.

She has made it her job (and livelihood I would assume � as an author) to identify the problem � and inform us � of the solution � which � is difficult � and can not be though of on our own.

She is convincing us �You � have a problem � and you need me� � and you know what? I do NOT have a problem!! SHE � has a problem � not me.

Why - ?? � Should I let her � put her problem � onto me??

Because someone said she has a reputation? Because she is a scholar? Because someone met her casually and felt she was nice?? Even a very spiritual person??

So what??

It is clear � that she has a problem (and I wish her good luck with it) but it is not MY � problem. I don�t have it. I don�t want it. It is not mine. God did not give it to me. I can not help her with her problem that had stunted � her � spiritual growth � and I refuse � to let her convince me that it is � my � problem � or that she is more advanced and I am not as smart � and I should fall into line behind her.

=== sit com ======
Here I am, at work, doing fine� working along side John. John is about my age and has kids too and we talk about kinds and jobs and movies�. As we work and we are talking about going to lunch together at noon.

And then the boss calls me into his office.

�Sit down Ray.�

I sit.

Boss: �So how are things? Are you getting along with John?�

Ray: �Fines. Oh yes.. John is pretty neat. We get along fine.�

Boss: �Well you know Ray, John is German and you are Polish.�

Ray: �Oh.. . OK�� (pause) � �So�.. ??�
Boss: �Well � they killed a lot of Polish people during WWII � so I just wanted to make sure that you two were getting along. After all � the Germans really still think of Polish people, especially Polish Jews � well � as less than human.�

Ray: �Ummm� maybe ... I don�t know. That never came up. We didn�t talk about that.�

Boss: �Well Ray � I think it in your best interest to sort that out between yourself and him � so you two can be friends.�

Ray: �I .. er � though we were doing fine.�

Boss: �Really Ray � y7ou didn�t feel that maybe John was being a bit � dishonest?�

Ray: �Well � I guess you know more about it than me. You are the boss and have a reputation as a good boos. I was not aware that Germans hated Polish people. You are the boss � you are more intelligent that I am � so you must be right. John � hates me. I wil look out for that.�

Boss: �I am not saying that Ray � all I am saying is that you two � have a problem � even if you were not aware of it - and you tow need to work it out.�

Ray: �Thanks for letting me know. I will keep my eyes on him and watch my back�.
===end of example==========

Alex... I am old enough and experienced enough to know that reputation - means nothing. The most wonderful German hymn composers wrote string hymns before Hitler � and just as stirring Nazi songs � for Hitler as well.

Sometimes it is a good thing - and sometimes it is collateral to make a sale of something that is not good. Bishops it was who united the churches � and bishops it was who shicsm-ed the churches.

There are far too many prophets (in the name of Christ)... for a God who said he would send us no more prophets because he had finally sent us Christ � it seems more an more prophets publish their opinions (for us to buy) every year. My book case � is full! And far too many of them do not agree and say �pick me � pick me � I am the true prophet�.

(an aside)
I once had a dream. In this dream I was in a store � it was not a book store � but near me was one of those racks that you turn � and has stuff hanging all around it. You know � plastic packets with the hole at top � so you can slide it off the rack-tree. Like that dollar candy � rack you spin.

Only in each packet around the rack � was another form of Christ.

On one side there was the Christ who �Wants you to be wealthy� and next to that was a packet of Christ who would �help you lose weight� and near that bunch was the section for the �Real Estate Mogul - Christ� and near the top was the �Power of Positive Thinking- Christ� and on the other side was the �Monastic � Christ� and the �Have a Great Day � Christ� and the red packets were the �Democratic � Christ� and the blue were the �Republican � Christ�.

So � many to chose from (!!??) select the most appealing one � and if you buy one and do not like it � you can come back and get a Christ of a different kind to try out. Change books � change packets of Christ � change church. Try �em all out � buy �em all � there must be one you like � but come back next month � because they do not last long in the stomach before you are empty of heart again.

We HAVE a tower of Babble already. Thousands of chaotic voices saying "I am the prophet - listen to ME" so that our heads spin and we always have more "sides" ever more sides - to choose which we would like to be on.

Let us - clear the decks. Let us throw out all the opinions we trusted. Let us stop up our ears. Let us cease being the source that pays the bills of these prophets � and encourages them to prophecy even more.

Let us be humble and say "I have no real idea who is right and what is happening! It all sounds like hens clucking madly in a hen house!� and let us look local - to ourselves � to the only life I am really responsible for (my own) and say "All in truth - I really am not experiencing any problems with the Orthodox (or the Catholic) friend of mine. I am not a bishop � God has not put it in my lap nor in my power � to make people like FREDERICA MATHEWES-GREEN � get along and accept Catholics without her logistics of imagining that she actually understand the people that she admits she does not understand.

That is HER responsibility. She � must answer to God for it. I have no idea what that will be. It is not mine.

I refuse to let her convince me - or drag me - into - what is here problem and not mine.

Yes - I have gotten to the point of resenting all these people who are the real cause - themselves - of division. They "sell" that division to us - they make - it exist - if we fall for it.

-ray

It's not clear at all. You really aren't providing anything but your opionion and some not very cogent examples that don't even have anything to do with her.

Your whole argument is built on a false dilemma anyway.

Andrew

Dear RayK,

Certainly, no one is obligated to read her books or listen to her!

But "her problem" is really that of many other Orthodox.

Looking at it another way, we Catholics often think there is no problem between Catholicism and Orthodoxy and it is just an issue other than religious that keeps the two from reuniting.

In fact, that is not how it is at all.

The Orthodox are very serious about the issues that are as yet unresolved - and because we Catholics think that they are not issues at all.

It is not that she is making a problem - she is reminding us that there are problems we haven't even scratched the surface of.

I don't have a problem with Orthodoxy - for ME, there already is no real divider between the two, except for the canonical reality of their separation.

Alex

Thanks, Alex. As an Orthodox, I have not enjoyed the some comments made about Ms. Mathews-Green and some of the views offered here. She really does speak for many Orthodox and dismissing her views is not helpful.

)I'm not really clear on how this whole thread started - is there a previous thread that I just can't find? Could someone point me towards it? Thanks.

BTW, I'm a Catholic and love Frederica - while disagreeing with some of her opinions. It's entirely possible to do that. Nobody is 100% right all the time (except maybe Alex ).

Dear Dolly:

Scroll down to the 8th thread below this one which was started by Fr. Thomas: "All for One? . . ."

No, Alex is right probably only 99% of the time.

Amado

I usally avoid reading articles by women with hyphenated names, they have made their point know.

james

That's very narrow minded of you, James.

Not every woman who has a hypenated last name has chosen it for herself.

I have two friends with hypenated last names and neither of them is making a political statement. One is still single, but it is her birth name. Her parents gave her a hypenated last name as is custom in many Hispanic families.

Another is a woman whose husband had a hypenated last name, she adopted this whole last name when she married him. His parents chose to hypenate their last names when they married. Each adopted the other's last name. Not her fault her husband's parents were odd.

There are many people who have inherited a hypenated last name due to the choices of their parents.

Would you contend that they are making a point with the name they were given at birth? Seems short-sighted to me.

Sorry you feel that way,I do not care for her opinons be they related to Orthodoxy or ..., and the narrow minded comment I'll ignore.

james

So which is it? Do you dislike her opinion because you have an actual intellectual objection?

Or are you dismissing her opinion out of hand because she has a hypenated last name?

One is a reasonable stance. The other is purely ridiculous.

I can see James point on some of the hypenated last names. At one time, they were mostly used in Great Britain and the etiquette mavens mandated that such people were to be addressed by the last of the names in the series, only. It has gotten a little ridiculous these days with names almost like Snuffleageous-Znortenhousen and the holders of those names want to be addressed by both! Sometimes I just find it easier to ignore them and not address them at all.

I'm sorry Jakub, but I also feel you can't simply dismiss someone because of her last name.

Presbytera Frederica is married to Father Gregory Mathewes-Green, pastor of Holy Cross Antiochian Orthodox Church in Linthicum, MD. Thus, she did not choose to hyphenate her name, her husband's parents chose it for her. Such is not unheard of in "pedigreed" families (and both Father Gregory and Presbytera Fredrica are converts from Episcopalianism, I believe). She writes for various publications (including I believe for National Review Online) and her writing is generally good in my view.

Now, as to the substance of the objection, my only comment is that such misperceptions of the Church are common amongst both Catholics and non-Catholics. It's not surprising (but unfortunate) that she chose to base her discussion of the differences on this misperception

So what about Hilary Rodham Clinton? No hyphen there.

Christine my Latin sister,

Arghh...now that really hurts .


james

ps - For those with enquiring minds...I just don't care for her writings...nothing more nothing less, no agenda pushing....

It is never a right job to "discredit" someone, whatever their reputation. But discrediting a person's argument in a rational way should not be confused with discrediting them personally. I have enjoyed much of her writing - especially on abortion - but here she misses the mark. Marc says it just right: her discussion indulges a misperception of the Catholic idea of unity. Overcoming such misperceptions - unreal problems - strikes me as a necessary first step to making progress on real problems.