www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Is Rome and Orthodoxy really ready to unite?

Oops! Sorry, sis!

I'm no prophet, but given your screen name, I predict similar errors in the future.

Petra (as suggested above) might not be a bad alternative.

Dear Linus,

For us here, Catholics are given the basics of their faith from their parish communities. So, the indepth study of the church are not taken and the word 'Orthodox' is foreign to the majority. Only those who could afford to travel the world or have an advance study of the church - so i'm looking at .0000something of Pilipinos.

But the different protestants groups are very common to us. Their communities are largely known to anycorner here, so it would be very obvious that when an Orthodox mission set its foot here Catholics sees them as part of those protestant churches.

This is sad is some parts but has its advantages because to those who know less of theological knowledge makes their faith more simple.

Slava Isusu Krystu!
eumir

Alex:

I've read this thread and been thinking about it very seriously. I believe, after much reflection, that it will take the Holy Spirit to change a lot of hearts simultaneously.

On the other hand, as a Latin Catholic who has observed much of church politics in the course of my life, I've wondered what would happen if and when we got some of the more conservative Orthodox bishops together with some of the liberals in our particular part of the Catholic Church. IMHO, we need our Orthodox brethren for balance, but some of our brethren might find them too tough to take.

I've studied and experienced some of the strictness of the Russian Orthodox Church's life, for example, and found its rigor a breath of fresh (patristic) air. But I wonder how many of my brethren would respond. I have a history of swimming against the current, but this could be a shock for the "go along to get along" group.

The first thought was Eucharistic and Confession practices. Even if we had everyone agree that there would be legitimate difference allowed in the various sui juris churches, I don't believe that our Orthodox brethren would stand for the lax practice found among so many Latins today. And to return the Latin people to the idea of the need for regular confession and a Communion fast--I don't know. (I taught a relgious education class in my parish a number of years ago and the parents told me that there are no longer any requirements for anything. When I went to my pastor, he told me to get used to it because this attitude seemed to him to be almost universal.)

So, to answer your question, even if all the doctrinal problems were overcome, we still might have a tremendous amount of orthopraxy problems to work on.

In Christ,

BOB

Glory to Jesus Christ!

We must BE the same as the Orthodox, and that is a work of centuries. And I fear that, with the crisis in both Churches, we are diverging rather than CONverging. The modern world is the beast that is eating us both alive, even if in different ways.

Arturo

What is the crisis in each and how are they different? I think I know what it is in Catholicism, but am not sure what you mean regarding the Orthodox. Thanks.

In Christ,
Anthony

I believe we will not be completely ready for union until:

1. The Orthodox Churches solve their internal schisms and the jurisdictional disagreements... but most of all when the Cold War's Bishops and hierarchs, who actively collaborated with Communism are gone. This is because to them, political things have been over the religious, they're happy as long as they have their status quo respected in their countries. ("The rest of the world doesn't count" Mgr. Bartolomeu Anania Archbishop of Cluj)

2. The Roman Church will also have to solve the current indiscipline of Bishops and priests and disobedience to Church authority, particularly in the developped countries; the rampant liturgical abuses that prevail in too many Roman parishes, political liberalism and secularizing tendencies so common in the modern Bishops.

It would also be desirable if Rome goves full autonomy to Eastern Catholic Churches (their current status is hardly a desirable model for the Orthodox to be in communion with Rome).

If the Orthodox become a more united body I think there will be a chance for the full recognition of sacraments and orders between the two Churches. I'm sure that both Churches will be complementary to each other. The Orthodox would give the example of patriotism and reverent services to Catholics, and Catholics would gove the example of a more universal and united group.

I think...

1) the Orthodox will have to accept the Supreme Authority of the Holy Father.

2) Catholics will have to accept the Supreme Authority of the Holy Father.

Orthodox will never accept the Infallibility of one HIerarch in the Church. Orthodoxy is a Church of the 7 Councils. The Pope as Bishop +Kallistos Ware has stated will be First Among Equals in a reunited Church as it was in the first 1000 years before the Schism.

But you see there is no need for reunion, the Church is already united, the Pope is either infallible or the Catholic Church is a liar.

I am starting to fear that their will be schism until Christ Returns.

Marana tha!

Greetings,

No one hierarch among the Orthodox has the ability to bring his church into union with Rome. As soon as it is tried, the local Orthodox church will break into two or more pieces.

JP II and Bartholomew may be getting along fine, but Bartholomew has no ability to bring on a reunion.

The Latin church must be willing to move on some key issues, the rank and file seem to be unable to recognize that fact.

Once any small portion of the Orthodox world agrees to commune the schismatic heretics of the west (their term, not mine), they themselves will be excommunicated by their brothers elsewhere in Orthodoxy. It would look like the Unia all over again.

In my opinion, only God can put the church back together again. We are incapable of doing so relying upon our own efforts.

Michael

Aren't those two things (supreme authority of the Holy Father and supreme authority of the Holy Fathers) mutually exclusive?

No, I shouldn't have responded.

It sounds like most people miss the point or dont want to reconize it.

Probably. Although, I have yet to hear one give an accurate exposition of what it is that the word actually means. Perhaps it would help the cause of unity if we took a page from Alfred Kahn and just substituted the word "banana". Far less scary.

This is from my daughter at the Franciscan University at Steubenville, Ohio:

When you get right dow to it, there is nothing really un-orthodox from the Catholic perspective about saying that infallibility doesn't quite mean always right, absolutely correct, or even useful to know, or necessary to believe--It means that statements that can readily be discerned as having been made by the Head of the Church to the whole Church can not be wrong and can never contradict anything that has been put before the faithful before.
---------

Is this correct, or should I demand a refund on the child's education?

Once any small portion of the Orthodox world agrees to commune the schismatic heretics of the west (their term, not mine), they themselves will be excommunicated by their brothers elsewhere in Orthodoxy.

That is not so absolute. For years the Russian Orthodox Church allowed full intercommunion with Catholics of both rites in the Soviet Union, and the MP Churches provided sacraments and care to the exiled Catholic faithful.