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Dec 29th, 2019
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I read somewhere recently (can't remember where), that in 1958 the conclave was getting ready to elect an Eastern bishop, but he said no and John XXIII was elected instead...does anyone else know anything about this and if it's true, why did the Eastern Bishop say no?
Vie
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The Armenian Catholic Patriarch Gregory Peter XV got the second highest number of votes behind Blessed John XXIII.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
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Originally posted by Myles:
I would like to say that I am thankful to the Byzantines and Orientals who defended the Roman Church on this thread. I did not begin this topic to argue with anybody nor do I respond now with that intention in mind. I began this thread to listen to the views of others and I suppose I got what I asked for. John has answered me with his opinion, honestly and truthfully, and in doing so he has replied in a mode that suits my initial inquiry. If his tone seems disrespectful then maybe we are being hyper sensitive. I understand your concerns Theist gal but internet or no internet we are free beings and can act accordingly.
Thus, I hope nobody will condemn me if in the exercise of my freedom I am at all offensive to anybody in the way I reply to some of what John has said.
I have, over the past few months, been truly considering changing rite from the Latin to the Greek. I was indeed, over the past weekend thinking of making the trip across London to the Ukranian Apostolic Exarchate Cathedral and attending the Divine Liturgy. However, I've always had the sense that I am simply too Latin--inspite of my afro-carribean ethnicity--to do so and I think John has confirmed this.
I might be spectacularly impressed by St Athanasius' exposition of how the Divine Logos mediates between man and God, I might be stunned to amazement by St Basil, held in awe by the eloquence of St Gregory the Theologian and delighted by the wit and boldness of St John Chrysostom. I may be thoroughly impressed by St Maximus the Confessor and I may be blown away by the depth of St Theodore the Studite's exposition on the veneration of Icons. But I am far too Latin.
In me there is too much Augustinianism, too much legalism, too much Roman earhliness. I dont have it in me to rise above the black and white uniquely Greek Aristotelian derived scholasticism of the Latin Church. If I am following a mystical path its that of men like St Francis de Sales than that of St Moses the Black. I am more systematised, more organised. For me things have to have a label and fit into nice theological cateogries. I now understand that I have far more in common with St Thomas Aquinas than with St Anthony of the desert (in spite the latter being my chosen confirmation/chrismation patron).
I love the Eastern Church, I love Eastern Christianity but its become clear lately that I just dont fit in with you guys--and not just on this thread. Elsewhere some Roman Catholics on this board have complained of increased anti-Latin feeling since the Pope's repose and I have watched it without comment up until now. I agree that the Roman Catholic Church is perhaps overly jurdistictional with y'all and has in the past abused both the Orthodox and the Eastern Catholics but is that any reason to remind us of that anytime we try to speak about the situation now?
ByzanTN once said that the Roman Catholic Church is like the 300 pound gorilla in our communion and he's right. But is that any reason to think that you can say what you like about Latins and it be ok, simply because we have a larger membership and the policy of our Bishops isnt always correct. Just because there are more of us that doesnt mean we should bare the brunt of your discontent in silent apology for all our past sins. Yes, we know you were Latinised and we're sorry but beyond that there's not much we can do.
I am not offended by John or anybody else and I dont want anybody apologies from anyone, indeed if I get flamed I dont mind either. I am glad that undercurrent of anti-Carolingian feeling has managed to break through my starry eyed vision of Eastern Catholicism and made me see I am better off where I am.
Even after all... my brother Myles, I wish you well in your spiritual pilgrimage and God's choicest blessings on that pilgrimage. If you are to stay Latin, so be it, but you would have been an asset to us in the East. but your candor and depth is somethingt I find refreshing, and there is a lot of that here in thge Forum. Take what insights you have gained from us Easterners. I still in my heart of hearts would like to gtain insights from the Latins, I'm sure they are there, and if I find them, great. The fact ofr the matter is, we are eclectic beings, and while we may have a matrix to build on, we add from elsewhere, and yes, each of us have a personally tailored spiritual understanding subject to the Holy Spirit if we are in Christ. Much of my own is based on primarily Russian Orthodox spirituality, but such spirituality has influences from evangelical Protestantism due to my cultural context here in the South and bolstered by my experience in a Baptist seminary, while having the Russian influence as the foundation and a great deal of the building. That is probably why I react to what I see as a cold legalism as I do. I am a Catholic from the cradle, and except for a number of years as a Mormon, therefor a returnee to Catholic Christianity, I intend to stay Catholic, and an Eastern one at that. I wish you well. Much Love, Jonn
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