www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Question for Roman Catholics /Chrismation

There has been much discussion on another thread about the annointing of chrism when one converts from Roman Catholicism to Orthodoxy.

Can someone tell me if the annointing of chrism is done in the Western Church. Remember that a cradle Orthodox gets chrismated as a baby during their baptism...it is considered the 'seal of the Holy Spirit'.

If, (and I don't recall ever seeing this in the RC Church), this is NOT done as a sacramental used in Baptism or any other rite (confirmation, etc) in the West, then it would make sense that converts are chrismated as part of their conversion.

Thanks for your answers...'Latin Trad', my friend, are you out there???

Yours in Christ,
Alice

Alice, I was chrismated in the Orthodox Church. Churches with Rome recognize the validity of the sacrament, and do not re-chrismate or confirm Orthodox. They receive them, and they sign the rolls of the parish as members without sacramental ceremonies. Another way of putting it is that with chrismation all things are made right, so there is no need to go further. The Byzantine Catholics (Ruthenians) chrismate babies with baptism nowadays, just like the other Orthodox.

This sort of reminds me of the occasional differences that occur within Orthodoxy with regard to recognition- how some jurisdictions don't permit communion of outsiders but are received without question elsewhere.

Good morning Alice,

Baptism and confirmation/chrismation in the Roman Church each include an anointing with chrism.

For baptism, the celebrant first prays "The God of power and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has freed you from sin and brought you to new life through water and the Holy Spirit. He now anoints you with the chrism of salvation so that, united with his people, you may rmain for ever a member of Christ who is Priest, Prophet, and King." All present say "Amen" and the celebrant anoints the newly baptized on the crown of the head with chrism, in silence.

For confirmation/chrismation, the celebrant dips his right thumb in the chrism and makes the sign of the cross on the forehead of the one to be confirmed, as he says "N., be sealed with the Gift of the Holy Spirit", to which the newly confimred responds "Amen."

This is taken from "The Rites of the Catholic Church", volume one.

Peace,

Charles

Thanks Charles and Jim.

I was confirmed in the 6th grade. There is word now Pope Benedict is considering moving it to the time of baptism. I have no opinion one way or the other on this. One thing that I think is really cool when a Catholic is confirmed they choose the name of a saint to be confirmed under. I picked Pope St. Leo X. When the bishop confirmed me , I don't recall the actual words, he stated " I confirm you Leo...

Dear LatinByzEastNovice,

(wow, that was a mouthful! *wink*)

Thanks for that information. It is cool that you got to take your favorite saint's name.

In my humble opinion, (and not that I don't understand and respect the reasoning behind the Latin practice), I think that the change you mentioned the present Pope is contemplating would be a positive change in making the practices of the East and West more similar, and thus, a positive step to reunification one day.

In the Orthodox world, you must be given a baptismal name which is the name of a saint or Christ, the Virgin Mary, or the angels. In the past, godparents were given this priveledge, but in the modern world, the godparents usually leave it up to the parents, as GENERALLY, this will also be the child's given secular name as well.

This name is very important to us, even though we didn't choose it ourselves, as it is the name that we will be called when partaking of sacraments, when prayer is said for us, and even when referring to us at our funeral and memorial services.

It will also be the name of our patron who will intercede for us and on whose feast day we will celebrate our name and saint/patron. It is also customary that we have an icon, usually gifted to us by a loved one, of our patron.

My priest reminds us of this importance occasionally before the Eucharist. One day when he was in a particular funny mood, he said, if your baptismal name is 'Chrystomos' for instance, I don't want you answering me when I say "servant of God" at the chalice with 'Chuck', even if that is what everyone, including your teachers and parents call you!

In Christ,
Alice

Greetings to all. Alice, I do not recall seeing it mentioned, but with the chrisma at confirmation comes a slight firm slap on the cheek by the Bishop with his first two fingers. I was 14 when Confirmed by then ArchBishop Joseph Bernadin and do recall the light slap each of us received prior to the anointing of the chrism. Someone once advised me this was to ensure any unclean spirits were frightened away from the physical body prior to anointing the candidate into adulthood as a full fledged member of the Church.

Is this slap still done by the Bishop? Does anyone know the true reasoning behind the slap?

In Christ,

Michael William 'Damien' Bakeler

Thanks Michael! THAT was very interesting!

The slap isn't done anymore. Now it's a handshake.

Good afternoon.

The striking or slapping of the cheek is no longer part of the rite of Confirmation. In the previous rite, the celebrant lightly struck the newly confirmed on the cheek and said "Peace be with you."

This greeting of peace is retained in the current rite. To the best of my recollection, the striking of the face symbolized the willingness of the newly confirmed to suffer for the faith.

Peace,

Charles

The "slap" - which is what they actually called it! - was in fact a stylized embrace or kiss of peace. I hasten to add that a great many people, including people who wrote catechisms and should have known better, mistakenly thought that it was a slap, and concocted a whole mystique about it based on this false understanding (it was supposed to remind the confirmand that he was now a soldier of Christ, prepared to endure martyrdom, etc. etc.). These fables have a way of taking on a life of their own.

Incognitus

I received the little tap on my shoulder(I think it was the shoulder, but it has been a while ago) when I was 13 (over 50 years ago anyway) so it may have been my cheek. If memory serves me here... in those olden days(1950) the sisters who prepared us for the Sacrament of Confirmation in our church told us it meant that we were sort of like knights and were reminded to be 'soldiers of Christ'... thus a carry down from the days when knights received a tap on each shoulder with a sword when they were knighted. And we did receive oil on our foreheads as well.

In the Confirmation class I prepared in the 80's those receiving the sacrament from the Bishop were no longer knighted, so to speak ...(no taps)but they were anointed with the oil. Actually our bishop then was the kind of delightful man who hugged them all at the reception afterwards.

In Christ and the Theotokos,

Mary Jo...

I've heard of the slap actually being given by special request by a few conservative bishops. My understanding is that it was symbolic preperation for defending the faith. My Mom told me that when she was little, some of the older kids teased those not yet confirmed by telling them that bishop slaps you so hard he knocks you down.

Here I am, Alice!!

I'm quite flattered that you thought of me to answer your question. Mr. Bransom is indeed correct--chrism is used in the Latin Church at baptism and at confirmation.

In regard to slapping: when I was in college, I used to serve Mass quite often. There was one priest who, when giving the blessing to the servers in the sacristy after Mass, used to go around the room and knock everybody up-side the head . . . and rather hard too. He was a tough old former Marine (in his upper 70's) who could not have been more respected by us "yoots."

Eudaimonia pantois,

LatinTrad

May Our Lord be with us all! This is quite a learning topic. Thank you for the reasoning behind the "Bishop's Slap". Now I know why I went into the Navy for 9 years, instead of the local Seminary.

Latin Trad, was the parish you attended in college part of the ArchDiocese of Cincinnati?

Alice, as you have observed with LatinByzEastNovice and myself, we picked names of Saints that inspired us for the Confirmation Ceremony, which then results in typically four names within the Church. How does the Eastern Church do this? Is the infant given a total of four names also? In my case, I chose St. Damien of Molokai.

Thank you.

In Christ,

Michael