www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Latins say Mary was espoused to the Holy Spirit

from Zenovia:

she "alone is the boundary between created and uncreated nature".

The Mother of God Platytera (More Spacious than the Heavens) She who contained the uncontainable
http://www.iconsexplained.com/iec/iec_summary.htm

This icon so perfectly illustrates her role in our lives. As Christ is fully formed in her, she has her hands outstreached to asking us to allow Christ to fully formed in us as he was in her.

This seems like a good resourse page, doesn't really relate to the discussion at hand. Oh it is Ivan Moody's cool...good work.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/ivanmoody/orthodoxliturgylinks.htm

Dear Alex.

I can speak for Latin Catholics.

In the Latin Church, the devotion for The Most Holy Virgin Mary is as big as yours. At 6AM we begin with the Angelus prayer, we have the Holy Rosary, meditating the mysteries of our redemption side by side with Mary and everlasting the words of the Angel St. Gabriel, and at the end we pray for her in a marvellous litany, we pray for her intercession during the Liturgy, and defferently of you, the Orthodox Christians, we proclaim that she was prevented from the sins, being immaculate and she is for being the Mother of God, the Theotokos, that you so proudly proclaim, we Latins proclaim her Spouse of the Holy Spirit.

In Corde Jesus et Maria

Nelson.

Dear Nelson,

I was just kidding, Big Guy, just kidding . . .

Your veneration for Her is equal to ours, even though ours is . . . equal to yours . . .

We didn't have the idea of Original Sin as a "stain" (however the CCC today discusses it - I had to put that in before djs came after me again . . .).

We are the ones who first established the feast of Dec. 9 as the "Conception of St Anne" and, as the liturgical services show, already honoured her as sanctified at that very moment.

The Rosary, according to Eastern saints, came from the East and spread to the West (even though Easterners tend to see it as a "Latin" devotion ).

The Litanies were developed from the Eastern Akathist hymns, as you know.

But that's O.K.!

Alex

Dear Alex,

Being Greek Orthodox, I would like to say there is a 'liberalizing' movement within our Church, as in (I believe) the Antiochian Orthodox. It appears to be a sign of the times.

If I quote what our great and venerated Saint Gregory Palamas has said, it is in order to 'teach' our Orthodox theology to those within our Church that are being misled.

Zenovia

I think it could lead to dangerous waters if in these devotional terms for the Theotokos we run the risk of blurring a Person of the Holy Trinity with the Blessed Mother. The teachings of the 7 Councils on the Holy Trinity should always be referred to I think in keeping an Orthodox (with small and large O) Faith in the Trinity and the Blessed Mother.

From the Fathers:

St. Irenaeus (130-202), in his famous Against Heresies (bet. 180-199) wrote:

. . . so also Mary . . . being obedient, was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race . . . Thus, the knot of Eve's disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith.
{3,22,4; from Jurgens, W.A., The Faith of the Early Fathers, Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press, 1970, vol. 1, p. 93, #224}
. . . for in no other way can that which is tied be untied unless the very windings of the knot are gone through in reverse: so that the first joints are loosed through the second, and the second in turn free the first . . . Thus, then, the knot of the disobedience of Eve was untied through the obedience of Mary.
{Against Heresies, III, 22,4; from Most, William G., Mary in Our Life, Garden City, NY: Doubleday Image, 1954, p. 25}
William Most comments:

Mary, says St. Irenaeus, undoes the work of Eve. Now it was not just in a remote way that Eve had been involved in original sin: she shared in the very ruinous act itself. Similarly, it would seem, Mary ought to share in the very act by which the knot is untied - that is, in Calvary itself.
{in Most, ibid., p. 25}
Just as the human race was bound over to death through a virgin, so was it saved through a virgin: the scale was balanced - a virigin's disobedience by a virgin's obedience.
{Against Heresies, V, 19, 1; cited in Most, ibid., p. 274}
St. Ambrose of Milan (c. 339-397):

Let us not be astonished that the Lord, who came to save the world, began his work in Mary, so that she, by whom the salvation of all was being readied, would be the first to receive from her own child its fruits.
{from the best current work on the subject: Mary: Coredemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate: Theological Foundations, ed. Mark I. Miravelle, Santa Barbara, CA: Queenship Publishing, 1995, p. 14; from In Lk. II, 17; ML 15,559}
Mary was alone when the Holy Spirit came upon her and overshadowed her. She was alone when she saved the world - operata est mundi salutem - and when she conceived the redemption of all - concepit redemptionem universorum.
{in Miravelle, ibid., p. 14; from Epist. 49,2; ML 16, 1154}
She engendered redemption for humanity, she was carrying, in her womb, the remission of sins.
{in Miravelle, ibid., p. 14; from De Mysteriis III, 13; ML 16,393; De instit. Virginis 13,81; ML 16,325}
Hilda Graef comments:

He interprets the sword in the prophecy of Simeon quite differently from Origen and the Greek fathers following him. In the view of Ambrose this sword is rather Mary's foreknowledge of the Passion, because she is 'not ignorant of the heavenly mystery.'
{in Graef, Hilda, Mary: A History of Doctrine and Devotion, vol. 1, NY: Sheed & Ward, 1963, p. 81}
She stood before the Cross and looked up full of pity to the wounds of her Son, because she expected not the death of her Son but the salvation of the world.
{Exp. in Luc., 10, 132; in Graef, ibid., p. 82}
When the Lord wanted to redeem the world he began his work with Mary, that she, through whom salvation was prepared for all, should be the first to draw the fruit of salvation from her Son.
{Exp. in Luc., 2, 17; in Graef, ibid., p. 82}
The Virgin has given birth to the salvation of the world, the Virgin has brought forth the life of all.
{Ep. LXIII, 33; in Graef, ibid., p. 83}
St. Jerome (c.343-420)

Death came through Eve, life through Mary.
{Ep. XXII, 21; in Graef, ibid., p. 94}
Every torture inflicted on the body of Jesus was a wound in the heart of the Mother.
{De 7 Verbis D. tr. 3; in St. Alphonsus de Liguori, The Glories of Mary, Brooklyn: Redemptorist Fathers, 1931 ed., Part 3: The Dolors of Mary; Reflections, p. 519}
St. Augustine (354-430) wrote:

. . . just as death comes to us through a woman, Life is born to us through a woman; that the devil, defeated, would be tormented by each nature, feminine and masculine, since he had taken delight in the defection of both.
{in Jurgens, ibid., vol. 3, 1979, p. 50, #1578; from Christian Combat, c. 397, 22,24}
. . . plainly she is [in spirit] Mother of us who are His members, because by love she has cooperated so that the faithful, who are the members of that Head, might be born in the Church. In body, indeed, she is Mother of that very Head.
{in Jurgens, ibid., vol. 3, 1979, p. 71, #1644; from Holy Virginity, A.D. 401, 6,6}
The cross and nails of the Son were also those of his Mother; with Christ crucified the Mother was also crucified.
{in St. Alphonsus de Liguori, ibid., p. 519}
St. Peter Chrysologus (c. 400-450; an influence on the Council of Chalcedon in 451):

'Hail, full of grace'; . . . the Angel offered her this grace. The Virgin received Salvation so that she may give it back to the centuries.
{in Miravelle, ibid., p. 16; from Sermon 140}
. . . a young maiden receives as a reward of the womb (Ps 126) salvation for those who were lost: - salutem perditis pro ipsius uteri mercede.
{in Miravelle, ibid., p. 17; Sermon 140,6}
Commenting on this text, John Henry Cardinal Newman wrote:

It is difficult to state more explicitly, although rhetorically, that the Blessed Virgin has fulfilled a real meritorious cooperation, a participation with the reversing of the fall as its price.
{in Miravelle, ibid., p. 17; from "Letter to Pusey," in Difficulties of Anglicans, II, pp. 43 and 42, London, 1900}
The Second Council of Nicaea (787), the seventh Ecumenical Council, which is fully accepted by the Orthodox, declared:

The Lord, the apostles and the prophets have taught us that we must venerate in the first place the Holy Mother of God, who is above all the heavenly powers . . . If any one does not confess that the holy, ever virgin Mary, really and truly the Mother of God, is higher than all creatures visible and invisible, and does not implore, with a sincere faith, her intercession, given her powerful access (parrh�sia) to our God born of her, let him be anathema.
{in Miravelle, ibid., p. 30; Session IV; Mansi XIII, 346}
Fr. Bertrand de Margerie comments:

This important, and no doubt little known, declaration of an ecumenical council presupposes, implicitly but surely, the acknowledgement of a privileged participation of Mary, as Mother of God incarnate, in the work of our salvation.
{in Miravelle, ibid., p. 30}
II. The Witness of Early Eastern Christian Tradition

Fr. Bertrand de Margerie, S.J., sums up:

Since the fourth and especially the fifth centuries, the Greek Fathers, expounding the views of Irenaeus, have become the clearer and more active witnesses of the unfathomable mystery that constitutes the privileged and unique mission of the Virgin Mother in the economy of Redemption. This role was magnificently summed up by the fifth century Fathers in these statements: Mary is the 'Mother of the Economy' (Theodosus of Ancyra, MG 77,393 C), the 'Mother of Salvation' (Severien of Gabala, MG 56,4) and 'the one who gives birth to the Mystery' ( [Patriarch] Proclus of Constantinople, MG 65,792 C). "All these expressions signify that Mary was, in dependence of the unique Savior and Redeemer, an active cause of our redemption. In the eighth and ninth centuries, the more abundant testimony of the Greek Fathers adds nothing essential. It will be enough here to quote Saint Andrew of Crete: Mary is 'the first reparation of the first fall of the first parents' (MG 97,879).
{in Miravelle, ibid., pp. 20-21}
St. Ephraem of Syria (c. 306-373) taught that Mary is the only virgin chosen to be the instrument of our salvation {Sermo III} and called her the "dispensatrix of all goods."

{in Most, ibid., p. 48}

St. Gregory of Nyssa (c. 330-c. 395):

Eve brought in sin by means of a tree; Mary, on the contrary, brought in Good by means of the tree of the Cross.
{in Miravelle, ibid., p. 18; from Sermon for the Nativity of Christ; MG 46, 1148 A,B}
St. John Chrysostom (c. 347-407)

A virgin [Eve] has cast us out from paradise; through a virgin [Mary] we have found eternal life.
{Expositio VII in Ps. XLIV (vol. 5, 171D; in Graef, ibid., p. 75}
Whoever then was present on the Mount of Calvary might see two altars, on which two great sacrifices were consummated; the one in the body of Jesus, the other in the heart of Mary.
{in St. Alphonsus de Liguori, ibid., p. 519}
St. Cyril of Alexandria (d. 444), at the Council of Ephesus in 431 (which both Orthodox and Anglicans accept), prayed:

Hail, Mary, Mother of God, . . . by whom the human race reaches the knowledge of the truth.
{in Miravelle, ibid., p. 12}
Hail, Mary, Mother of God, by whom all faithful souls are saved {sozetai}.
{in Miravelle, ibid., p. 13; from MG 77,992, and 1033; also from Ephesus}
In what some consider the greatest Marian sermon of the patristic period, St. Cyril states:

. . . it is through you that the Holy Trinity is glorified and adored, through you the precious cross is venerated and adored throughout the world . . . through you that churches have been founded in the whole world, that peoples are led to conversion.
{in Miravelle, ibid., p. 134; from Homilia in Deiparam; PG 65,681}
Theodotus of Ancyra (d. c. 445), a prominent Father at the Council of Ephesus, called her "dispensatrix of good things."

{in Most, ibid., p. 48}

The expression Mediatrix or Mediatress was found in two 5th-century eastern writers, Basil of Seleucia (In SS. Deiparae Annuntiationem, PG 85, 444AB) and Antipater of Bostra (In S. Joannem Bapt., PG 85 1772C), 500 years before any Latin writer used it (apart from a direct derivation from the east). The theory developed in the work of John of Damascus (d.c. 749; see Homilia I in Dormitionem, PG 96 713A) and Germanus, Patriarch of Constantinople (d.c.733; see Homilia II in Dormitionem, PG 98 321, 352-353).

{see Miravelle, ibid., pp. 134-135}

The Protestant reference Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (ed. F.L. Cross, 2nd ed., Oxford Univ. Press, 1983, p. 561), states concerning Patriarch Germanus:

Mary's incomparable purity, foreshadowing the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, and her universal mediation in the distribution of supernatural blessings, are his two frequently recurring themes.
St. Germanus, Patriarch of Constantinople (c. 634-c. 733)
No one is saved except through you, O Theotokos; no one secured a gift of mercy, save through you . . . in you all peoples of the earth have obtained a blessing.
{Hom. in S. Mari� Zonan, MG 98, 377; in Miravelle, ibid., p. 283}
St. Andrew of Crete (c. 660-740) referred to Mary as the "Mediatrix of the law and grace" and also stated that "she is the mediation between the sublimity of God and the abjection of the flesh."

{Nativ. Mari�, Serm. 1 and Serm. 4, PG 97, 808, 865; in Miravelle, ibid., p. 283}

St. John of Damascus (c. 675-c. 749) spoke of Mary fulfilling the "office of Mediatrix."

{Hom. S. Mari� in Zonam, PG 98, 377; in Miravelle, ibid., p. 283}

Hail Thou, through whom we are redeemed from the curse.
{PG 86, 658; in C.X.J.M. Friethoff, A Complete Mariology, Westminster, MD: Westminster Press, 1958, p. 221}
O Mary, whose mediation is never refused, whose prayer is never denied . . . through you we obtain, as long as we linger in this crumbling world, the means to do good works . . .
{PG 96:647; in Friethoff, ibid., p. 268}
III. Eastern Liturgies

Concerning the Byzantine Liturgy, Fr. Bertrand de Margerie writes:

It does not hesitate to implore the Virgin herself for salvation. The following expression is often repeated in the liturgy: 'Most Holy Mother of God, save us.' Surely - numerous texts express it - if Mary can save us, it is because of her intervention with her Son, the only Savior . . .
In fact, . . . no mention of salvation in the liturgical prayers is ever made without invoking the intercession of the Virgin. Such frequency and insistence are not found to the same degree in the course of the Mass in Western liturgies . . .

. . . the recourse to the mediating intercession of Mary reveals the faith of the Church in her unique participation, through divine Motherhood, in the mystery of Redemption.

While exalting the powerful intercession of the Mother of Christ, the Byzantine liturgy does not ignore the created finitude of the Virgin. As proof, the astonishing prayer of the Byzantine Church for Mary; linked, besides, to the recourse to her intercession . . .

. . . since the Church prays for Mary, it is obvious that she is not adored. Mary is not a goddess, but a pure creature . . . Mass is not a sacrifice offered to the Virgin, but to God alone.

{in Miravelle, ibid., pp. 26-28}
Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom

In the Liturgy of the Catechumens, the people cry out: "By the intercession of the Theotokos, Saviour, save us." Before distributing Holy Communion, the priest prays: "May Christ, our true God (who rose from the dead), as a good, loving and merciful God, have mercy upon us and save us, through the intercession of his most pure and holy Mother."

{see Miravelle, ibid., pp. 133-134}

Devoted to Her,
+Fr. Gregory