www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Is it ok to join the Orthodox Church if no BCs are in the area?

I always thought the head of the Catholic Church was Christ.

The Pope of Rome is merely his Vicar, responsible for the Petrine ministry.

There is the Head, Christ, and there is His personal Vicar, correct. The Petrine ministry is what connects the body to the head.

Metropolitan Sheptystksy (no, he's not a canonized saint...yet) was not in the same situation that our brother St Herman is in. Yes, he believed in communion with Rome, but I also think he would counsel our dear brother to live his spiritual life according to his conscience, even if it meant going to an Orthodox church.

The Body of Christ is One; there is no Catholic or Orthodox in it. Any and all divisions are the direct result of human sin. Our Holy Father in Rome has repeatedly said that the Orthodox churches "remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches." (Dominus Iesus). In a perfect world, our brother would have access to a Byzantine Church that is in perfect communion with Rome. However, he does not.

According to our canons, we are not "obligated" (there's that word!) to worship at a Latin Rite church if there is no Byzantine Catholic church in the vicinity. However, the Holy Spirit is moving our brother here to want to worship, to want to give glory to God, and his conscience and personality have him wanting to give that glory in an Eastern fashion.

Personally, I would not hesitate to join an Orthodox church if I were in his shoes, but I would probably receive communion in a Latin church when I needed to, unless the priest at the Orthodox church and its parishoners invited me to do so in their church, knowing full well of my feelings on communion with Rome. Indeed, I firmly believe that intercommunion will happen from the bottom up, and not the top down. It goes on in Eastern Europe and in the Middle East and it is only a matter of time before those of us in the West follow, both Catholic and Orthodox.

Huh? What canon is that? That sure isn't what we've been taught all along...

Mikey,
This makes my point--Christ's Church does not have divisions in it. It is one body, visibly united. Therefore, if a group is separated somehow--how can you say that it's all part of the same reality?

There is an Intercommunion thread, on which it has become apparent that it is a very heated issue.

I don't think our brother St Herman was asking if he should just go the the Orthodox for liturgy, either--I think he was asking for advice on whether to "join" the Orthodox.

God Bless!!

I agree with everything you wrote, except the word "merely".

Dear St. Herman:
Welcome!
I wanted to clarify something: you're not yet Catholic and not yet Orthodox, is that right? And you have wanted to become Eastern Catholic, but there are no such churches in your area?
Anyway, best wishes.
C of S

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Mikey comes through with reason and clarity, welcome back Mikey!

Since we haven't heard from any priests or bishops that I am aware of, I'll take a shot at it as an interested layperson. I can only share my opinion.

This might seem like an unusual case to some people but I honestly believe many people struggle with this decision every year. And the answers to these questions probably lean toward the practical, "economy" so to say. Who are we to judge?

It is no secret that there just are not enough Eastern Catholic churches in the United states. And frankly, many of those that do exist are 'tweeners, really half Roman because of local custom. The traditions are often mixed in other words.

Due to the fact that St Herman is apparently not yet Catholic or Orthodox presently it does seem like a moot point, after all. The whole Forum will not come to an agreement about what constitutes the church, how can an innocent inquirer make such a decision?

I believe that there must be many big-O Orthodox who would consider themselves Catholic in communion with Rome if the circumstances were better, and I know many Byzantine Catholics would be in communion with Constantinople if it weren't for that "little something" in the way. We are so close in some ways it hurts.

St Herman is in a period of discernment, he's entitled to it, he should take as much time as he needs and at this point the decisions are his alone. The Eastern churches do not actually have an RCIA program like the Roman church does and his theology is evidently developing along eastern lines, that is his understanding.

Personally, if I were in St Hermans position I would do the catechumenate in a suitable local Orthodox church and finish my formation there. It would be truer to his foundational beliefs. I would pray in my heart for church unity and participate fully in the church, Baptise and Chrismate there. At some later point he could decide whether he would rather take communion in the Catholic church, he would already be welcome as an Orthodox christian.

Who knows St Herman might like to establish a Byzantine Catholic mission some day, if it grows in his heart there will be no stopping him!

The reality is that we will never make progress in church unity without more Orthodox and Catholics desiring a shared communion, this is how it happens.

So shoot me.

Michael

Dear All:

I humbly agree with Michael and Dan. St Herman, follow your heart. If you feel that communion with Rome is more important than being part of a Byzantine Rite community, or vice versa, there is your answer.

Allow me to share. My first year and a half as a law student, I didn't have a car and could not get to a Ukie church. I attended several Latin Rite parishes in the area and, well did not feel at home.

Finally, with the Great Fast approaching and needing a dose of my own spirituality, I went to the GO parish in my neighborhood. Guess what! I had found my spiritual home for the next year.

Guess what else - lightning didn't strike me.

Yours,

kl

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I attend s mission church. The bishoip is from the Greek Archdiocese. But Some of the hyms are Orthodox Church of America hymns. There is not yet a regular priest, so it is a different priest every Liturgy. Sometimes the priest is Antiochian Archdiocese. When the bishop comsto town he brings his deacon (a Romanian) with him. So there is some Romanian language used in the Liturgy.

If I were to join the join the Orthodox church and later convert to estern Caatholicism, would I have to Join an ethnicly Greek Parsh? Or could I join say a Mekite parish (there is a Melkite Parish downstate)?

Also what is the prcess of becoming catechumen? Does a catecumen get a spiritual father. What is a spiritual Father? Is this the same as a spiitual director?

P.S please pay for me. I am stuck in a pattern of commiting deadly/mortal sins and am araid of losing God's grace. I have no excuse. I know that O am sinning at the time.

Also please pray for my parrents and brother. My mom and brother are beoming more interested in going to chuch. But they do not fully realise that saints can intercede on our behalf (though my mom feels er mother watches over her in heaven). Also they believe an angel helped my brother when he almost died of heart condition.

Sorry, the word 'pay' should have been 'pray'.

I will pray for you.

You are our brother in Christ.

Michael

I have to confess that this is one area where some Byzantines confuse me. If it's so important to be Orthodox in communion with Rome, why is it then fairly common to hear of Eastern Rite Catholics becoming Orthodox after they move to an area that has no Eastern Rite Churches nearby. It would be very difficult to draw a proper analogy to this, but hypothetically speaking, could you imagine a Latin moving to a new location and saying "The only Catholic Church in the area is Eastern Rite, so I'am joing the Episcopal Church down the street" Frankly speaking, if I was Orthodox, I don't think I'd be flattered to have someone join my church if they were merely doing it out of convenience.

"but hypothetically speaking, could you imagine a Latin moving to a new location and saying "The only Catholic Church in the area is Eastern Rite, so I'am joing the Episcopal Church down the street" " Yes, I can imagine such a scenario quite easily - though it might be more likely that such people would go nowhere. I'm acquainted with people who had been Roman Catholics and became Lutherans for what I can only call social reasons. And I have met MANY Roman Catholics who still don't believe that Eastern Catholics are real and would not attend an Eastern Catholic Church under any circumstances. Incognitus