www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Opus Dei apologizes for Mohammed Cartoon

Karen- Your assessment of the motives of Opus Dei is most uncharitable. To ascribe cowardice to their repentance for publishing an offensive cartoon is most harsh and unfair.
And in stating that one ought not respect Islam you are not thinking with the mind of the Church. Whatever its shortcomings from a Christian perspective, Islam brought the message of monotheism to many many pagan peoples.
Islam is certainly kinder in its assessment of Jesus Christ than is, say, Judaism. Note that in reaction to the cartoons of Mohammed no Muslim published offensive cartoons of Jesus; that would be seen as also blasphemous by them. While traditional Judaism [eg, in the Talmud] taught that Jesus was the illegitimate son of a Roman soldier and a Jewish prostitute, Islam teaches that he was born of a Virgin, whom they honor.
The current outbreak of jihadist violence ought to be seen as the result of a war within Islam, and a reaction to the policies of Israel, Britain and the USA. When Christians characterize everyday Muslims as madmen, you are offending them, and leading to the growth of violent jihadism.
-Daniel

Karen,

The Church asks us to do a lot of things that we find difficult but we need to keep faith. We are led along the high road because that is the only road to heaven. This is why the apology is a good thing even though it may be distasteful at the moment.

I think what may be bothering you, and many people, is the expectation of the same charity from the other side. We must all hope and pray that the Muslim world changes but if we expect it to then I'm afraid we will continue to be sorely disappointed.

Gordo,

I'm not surprised that the writer (a Muslim, I assume) only talks about greater Jihad-- this is what you described above. Conveniently, the writer neglects to mention lesser Jihad-- this refers to physically fighting enemies of Islam. An enemy of Islam is, by the way, anyone or any country that is perceived to be hindering the spread of Islam. This is where airplanes start crashing into public buildings.

God bless,

Karen

Daniel,

Originally posted by iconophile:
Karen- Your assessment of the motives of Opus Dei is most uncharitable. To ascribe cowardice to their repentance for publishing an offensive cartoon is most harsh and unfair.

You think so? Let me quote from the article:

"Sanchez Hurtado cited two reasons for special sensitivity on the issue. First, he pointed out that the earlier riots over the Danish cartoons mocking Mohammed should have underlined the volatile nature of such depictions. Second, he observed that Opus Dei has been subject to harsh public treatment because of the sensational depiction of the lay movement in the novel The DaVinci Code. Now, he said, Opus Dei should offer the same respectful treatment toward Islam that it hopes others will show to the prelature."

Translation: We're afraid the Muslims will riot again, and we don't want members of the public stupid enough to take the Da Vinci Code seriously to think badly of us."

So you see, by Hurtado's own words, these are the reasons for the "apology." If you don't recognize this as selling out to Muslims and to the PC crowd, I'd really like to know what else you'd call it.

And in stating that one ought not respect Islam you are not thinking with the mind of the Church.

I think I am. If you mean that I'm not thinking with the mind of the liberal modernist religious relativists in the Roman hierarchy, I certainly hope I'm not.

Whatever its shortcomings from a Christian perspective, Islam brought the message of monotheism to many many pagan peoples.

Um... yeah, with a SWORD. Some message!

Islam is certainly kinder in its assessment of Jesus Christ than is, say, Judaism.
Note that in reaction to the cartoons of Mohammed no Muslim published offensive cartoons of Jesus; that would be seen as also blasphemous by them.

Oh no, instead they just lay waste to our churches and to Bibles and kill Christians.

While traditional Judaism [eg, in the Talmud] taught that Jesus was the illegitimate son of a Roman soldier and a Jewish prostitute, Islam teaches that he was born of a Virgin, whom they honor.

Yeah, and Mohammed taught this only to attract Christians. When that didn't work, he used much more violent methods of persuasion.

The current outbreak of jihadist violence ought to be seen as the result of a war within Islam, and a reaction to the policies of Israel, Britain and the USA. When Christians characterize everyday Muslims as madmen, you are offending them, and leading to the growth of violent jihadism.

(GROAN) My friend, you obviously have no clue about the history of Islam or its teachings. Jihad was going on centuries before Britain and the U.S.A. ever existed. It has nothing whatsoever to do with our policies in Israel. This is typical liberal PC baloney, no offense. This tantamount to blaming Poland and France for Nazi invasions.

But no, certainly not all Muslims are madmen... at least, the ones who don't follow the Q'uran and the example of Mohammed aren't. But the religious/political system of Islam is indeed malevolent, and we won't stop violent "jihadism" by trying to be appease them.

God bless,

Karen

P.S.-- I checked out your site, and your icons are beautiful.

Bless, Father Anthony!

Actually, the icon is STILL there, but there is no inscription indicating who it is that is in the flames of hell.

Although an astute artist viewing the image could probably put two and two together!

The absence of any indication as to the identity of the person is probably why it has remained in place even when the cathedral was a mosque.

Doubtless, had anyone known about the image, it would have been defaced.

The Muslims defaced many icons in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre/Resurrection of Christ in Jerusalem.

But when they got to the icon of the Nativity, they left the three Wise Men alone - they looked like Arabs after all!

A good Holy Week to you (although I'm beginning to get somewhat shaky!)

Alex

Dear Paul,

Christ is risen!

What is bothering me is our zeal to be popular with everybody. Since when is the Church supposed to be liked by the world?

When we "dialogue" with heretics, we're always the ones to capitulate. I'd like to see the day when we get an apology from the Mohammedans for how they've "offended" US. Don't hold your breath, though, because they have no respect for us. The only thing they respect is brute force.

God bless,

Karen

Dear Karen,

The point is that unless you are ready and willing to take them on in a street battle, it's not a good thing to offend them.

That's not being pc, that's being realistic.

We should focus our attention, I believe, on those Christians who are persecuted in Muslim and other countries - including North America, it would seem . . .

Alex

Aw, I'll take 'em on.

Seriously, though, I think we should also try harder to convert the Muslims. Of course, that's difficult, because the penalty for leaving Islam in Islamic law is death.

Do we have any of Vlad the Impaler's DNA? I would love to have him cloned-- HE really would take on the Muslims. And I'm sure he could lower the crime rate significantly if we elected him to office...

God bless,

Karen

Bu

while Karen may have gone overboard a bit on the who is in Hell question, I do agree that that it seems to be an American sickness to apologize to everyone else for being alive. I took a course in Islam in my undergrad days, and have personally known a number of Muslims, as fellow students, as colleagues, and as friends. however, Islam is a false religion out of Hell and I would like very much to see Muslims turn to Christ. yeah, Islam owes an apology for its persecution of Christians over the centuries, even if such was exacerbated by the Crusades (and this from a descendant of Frederick Barbarossa, but who, as an EC, is quite familiar with the Crusader sack of Constantinople, and its ensuing 'Latin' Empire in the Eastern Roman Empire, even if my great great, etc. grandpappy had nothing to do with the Constantinople affair). do I see it forthcoming, not likely. but I am not going to hijack a plane full of men, women, and children and smash it into a building full of men, women, and children, to make my point. Islam's problem with us, according to an article I saw in the February 2006 issue of "First Things", is that they are painfully aware of how backward their Islamic world, despite the oil wealth, in comparison to the West. Isalm has does nothing for its people, while the Christian influenced parts of the world have far excelled their impoverished world. true, Baghdad at one time was a world civilization center, a place of science, culture, and knowledge. but that was many centuries ago, what has Islam done since?
Much Love,
Jonn

You should seriously explore alternative theories regarding September 11, 2001 and stuff. Osama works for the CIA. Governments use "terror" attacks on their own people to increase domination. Ask yourself, who really has motive for such attacks? Who gains, Muslims or Government?

all due respect, I am not into conspiracy theories, yet another American sickness. there are so many theories out there, it's not funny. there is even one where the Jews were behind it all. please, dear brother, please.
Much Love,
Jonn

The "alternative theories" almost always boil down to: Bush Did It!

And while I certainly don't think Bush is the greatest president we ever had, I find it hard to believe he'd cold-bloodedly murder 3,000+ Americans just to start a war with Iraq.

Think about it: what if 9/11 had never happened? Couldn't Bush still have found a reason to go to war with Iraq? After all, we still had all that ongoing conflict with them over the U.N. declarations.

This is a blanket warning to all posters to the Church News section of the Forum. As of 16 April the admin has agreed to new posting rule for this section. No political discussions will be allowed or tolerated in this section. Political discussions can be aired in Town Hall.

Any future posts of a nature dealing with politics will deleted from this section from now on. I am giving this as a heads up to everyone.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Moderator/Administrator

Bless, Father!

Forgive me, but when do we draw the line between religion and political thinking on such a topic?

When we mention the name of the U.S. president? Is not what Opus Dei did something that is at least open to a political interpretation?

Personally, and I teach political science these days, I really didn't see that much of a distinction between the political perspectives that expressed themselves at several points along this thread.

So to avoid problems in future, where do we draw the line on politics?

Would a news story about something the Moscow Patriarchate did to downplay the significance of the Orthodox Church's role in the "sobor" of 1946 when the UGCC was forcibly reunited with its "mother church" not likewise be considered political?

If I am out of line and I should be quiet during Holy Week, please let me know Father!

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

Alex,

No disrespect, but this is a section dealing with Church News. News about the Church is permitted to be discussed, but it seems that certain posters hijack threads and turn them into issues dealing with the American political situation. If they want to do so let them do it in Town Hall. I will not be allowing it here. The description under Church News, states to discuss the news of the Church, not the American political landscape. So being that almost any Church News thread posted lately seems to draw in politics of a secular nature, the "No discussions of politics" rule has been added.

Lines of charity have been stretched in the last several weeks, that has included posters accusing others of some serious trangressions in regards to citizenship. It will not be tolerated. I am moderating a Church News section, not a forum for politics. That is why we have a Town Hall section for all other subjects that do fit the particular categories of this forum.

I am sorry if this offends some, but I will not be backing down on this issue.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Moderator/Administrator