www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Encyclical Allatae Sunt

Just what does that mean?

Is it a slam of me, Andrew, or both? Perhaps your statement is something else entirely?
Please enlighten me.

In any event, your comment did nothing to further the conversation, but then I'm sure you already know that.

~Isaac

Our Latin Rite parish has a very active teen group and Dead Theologian Society group. I think they would be very receptive to learning about Eastern Catholics. Is there a "stock" power point presentation available that I could obtain in order to give a comprehensive presentation to these groups?

I think the correct term is a hobbled horse...the front legs a tied so it will not roam...

So if you rope a hobbled horse...

just my 2 cents of the cowboy way...

james

That's right. Because all of us in the west are stupid, ignorant Catholics who have been so corrupted by platonic (read: pagan) metaphysics that we should hardly be called Catholic and we have absolutely no understanding of the east. We all need "enlightening". I am sorry but I do not like the attitude that I see towards western Catholics on this thread. Sarcastic comment: I guess that our heads our just so jam packed with all of the dogmatic councils, not just the first seven, that we don't have any room left for an understanding of the east. Poor stupid ROMAN Catholics. (Just to be clear, I am ROMAN/LATIN Catholic).

Micah,

I created one two years ago that I delivered to a visiting group of Latins. If you send PM your e-mail address, I can send it to you sometime next week.

God bless,

Gordo

Ok, LatinCat, calm down. No one has said such things. I think you will find, though, that the average Eastern Catholic is far more educated on things Latin than the average Latin Catholic is on things Eastern. Given the fact that the Latins appear to hold all of the "ecclesial power cards" as a majority church with Petrine primacy, we have some basis for our complaint and reason to be concerned. Historically such ignorance on the part of the Latins has caused us great harm and even lead to schism and the loss of millions from our ranks.

So pour a good glass of vino, sit back and read Orientale Lumen and see why the pope addresses the problem of ignorance on the part of many Latin Catholics concerning the East.

And then join us in helping to educate your Latin brothers and sisters.

Gordo, who just had a Killian's Red

Look, its just that is has been my experience that all the Roman Catholics I know treat our breathern from the Eastern Catholic parish in our town as equals. In fact, we go to eachothers parishes quite often. But it seems to me, from the posts on these forums, and from talking to many eastern Catholics, that western Catholics are treated as stupid and ignorant, that we know nothing of the east, and that the western Church is in error. How can that be since we share the same faith? I simply don't understand. I find much about the east very beautiful; I find much of the east's understanding of our shared faith to be amazing. But I just hate to see so many easterners looking down on westerners as if we need to be "elightened".

Any Eastern Catholic who takes a position that the West is in error in matters of dogma places himself or herself out of communion with the Church of Rome. The same is true of Western Catholics who assert that the Catholic East is in error in matters of dogma - a ruptured communion.

With that said, the East can be critical of certain tendencies both within Latin doctrinal teaching and practice. The reverse is also true. As to the charge of ignorance, I still stand by my assertion, but will say that your experience is quite exceptional - and exemplary. Sad to say, not everyone can identify with that.

I hope that no one on the forum has treated Latins as if they were stupid. More often I have seen charges of "one-sidedness" or liturgical nonsense...and the charge is usually related to a specific incident.

Keep witnessing to our Catholic unity, bro. You are truly fulfilling John Paul the Great's wishes!

Pace e' bene,

Gordo

LatinCat,
If I may say so, I think there is a misunderstanding here. The original use of "enlightened" when taken in context referred to ignorance among Western Catholics about the Eastern Catholic Churches. Subsequent posters have preferred to talk of "education" which is perhaps less likely to be taken amiss. Like yourself I am a Roman/Latin Catholic here to learn more about the eastern forms of catholicism, and I do find some postings offensive in tone and even content. However, it is true in my experience that we westerners are in general almost totally unaware of Eastern Catholicism, sometimes even to the fact of its existence.
I have learned a lot on this forum, much of it useful for my own spiritual journey, so I usually bypass any hostile or ignorant comment on the Roman church. I regard it as a regrettable but inevitable reaction to Western hostility and ignorance.
Peace be with you.

Part of the problem is that until very recent times the various Eastern Rites were 3rd class Catholics and treated as such by the dominant Latin Rite. The events that have occured since Vatican II have been spectacular in terms of how the Latin Rite has changed the relationship to one of equals.

Latincat does not seem to understand that the People of God come with history and cultural baggage that simply does not fall away so easily, just because the internal relationships of the Catholic Church have changed for the better in recent times. The American Byzantine Church knows only too well what happened to them due the ill treatment at the hands of Latin Rite bishops and how it spit them up and a substantial number left the Catholic fold. Similar situations have been expereinced in other parts of the world. We have history and it is not all that good.

Relax. I was teasing you about the pot and the kettle. I am not an enemy. Don't view me as one and we may seek and find common ground.

Eli

Of course I don't understand that the People of God come with baggage. I am an uneducated Roman Catholic in need of enlightening, remember?

Yes. Well now you admit you have a problem you can commence working on it and get informed. One step at a time.

LatinCat

You might want to rRead this:
Orientale Lumen [vatican.va]

FYI,

Canon law states that a Byzantine Catholic should be baptized in a BCC. Permission is only granted by the local Bishop to do otherwise. This is canon law in order to protect BC's. On a routine basis this is ignored by RC priest. Mostly due to ignorance on behalf of the RC priests.

On side note, there are many RC priest who have never heard of the Eastern Rite Churches. Believe It Or Not!

See what I mean. You assume I have not read Orientale Lumen. Again you assume that I am an uneducated Roman Catholic. Good job proving my point.