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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Bill from Pgh Member
Joined: Jun 2006
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Dear LatinCat,
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
" Those 'who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect communion with the Catholic Church.'
With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound ' that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist.'" ( bold lettering mine)
This is what my " Catholic Church in communion with Rome" teaches.
Orthodox Christians if given proper dispensation from their bishops are welcome at the Eucharistic table in the Catholic Church. I know this is not reciprocal between the two churches, but again, this is what the Catholic Church I belong to teaches.
I will not argue this any further, agree or disagree, take from it what you will.
In All Charity,
Bill
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Bill from Pgh Member
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Dear Alice, I applaud your moderation.  Your post was not there when I decided to write my post above. If I had seen it my post would have been unnecessary. Not implying my post was necessary to begin with. Humbly, Bill
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It all had to be said as these trails of postings with Latincat are going nowhere at all.
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Amado, I am fairly certain the RC Church is the majority among the Catholic Churches in your area. They should take the lead, and accept it, and not vice versa. You can contribute a large contingent of Eastern Catholics if you so desire.
Why try to organize your own when there is already an existing one? Is the Pro-Life movement organized and led by the Latins not doing its job? The local RCCs don't do a whole lot in the Pro-Life activities in the area. In fact, our EC priest is the only Catholic priest who comes down to the local Abortion Mill. There use to be a RC priest that would come but he was reassigned. So much for the RC's taking "the lead." JFYI, I don't think there are any RC's who are collecting baby items for the local Pro-Life clinic. Our little Church has started to do this. Also, there are about 20 dedicated RC's who go out and pray at the Abortion Mill on a regular basis. JFYI, we live in the fastest growing county in the USA. So, I will not "accept it" nor will I sit back and wait for the RC to "take the lead." Since our Church has been founded I am not aware of any RC inviting us for any Pro-Life activities except a member of ours who is in the KofC. We are just getting started with our Pro-Life stuff. We are going to be doing A LOT more in the near future. As soon as I get time I am going to help develop a website so that we can communicate and correlate our Pro-Life efforts. With the help of the Holy Ghost, don't be surprise if our little Church doesn't do Great things in the near future.
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Moderator Member
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Brothers and Sisters:
I think it would be far more beneficial to all of us if we revisited a topic posted here a few years ago. The Eucharist is the heart of the church; it is Her life; it is our life. While the scandal of our division at the Lord's Table continues, it might be well to consider how we are still at some level in communion because of the Mystery of the Eucharist itself and the Mystery of the Trinitarian life that it draws us into. Here's a link to part of that topic which the Administrator asked us to post about:
https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001648;p=3
BTW, I just heard a repeat of what "Catholic" means and I think it is one we can all agree on. Catholic means "here comes everyone."
In Christ Who calls us to love one another,
BOB
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Forum Keilbasa Sleuth Member
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Forum Keilbasa Sleuth Member
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Originally posted by LatinCat: Originally posted by ebed melech:
[b] Amen, James.
LatinCat,
Your desire to defend orthodoxy is noble, but your praxis is toxic to relations between Catholics and Orthodox - not to mention Christian charity.
If you have read Orientale Lumen, and I have no reason to believe that you have not, might I recommend a second or third reading? Even take it to prayer and let its contents move from your mind into your heart. Right now, at least in terms of what I read, I am not sure much has penetrated, whatever you grasped conceptually.
In Christ,
Gordo, who believes, as Father Deacon Jessup does, in the canonicity of all 21 councils, with primacy to the first 7 within our tradition - most especially the first 4 - and still regards himself as "Orthodox in Communion with Rome" Ahhh yess, we're all friendly here and do not resort to calling each other schismatics and such. Please be kind, it is first and foremost a Byzantine Catholic message board that happens to have a diverse membership that includes a heavy amount of Eastern Orthodox members. And you know what, we have made some really good bonds here with each other and many of us know each other personally. We welcome all and we should show everyone respect. Thank you, Orthodox Pirohi
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In fairness, LatinCat seems to have the backing of the CCC in order to call us schismatics. It's not just something he's coming up with on his own.
Andrew
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Andrew who are the CCC's?
Oh I do disagree here, as Latincat is so way off beam as to be backed by no one worth quoting in terms of the Catholic - Orthodox dialogue.
Pavel
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Originally posted by Ray S.:
So, I will not "accept it" nor will I sit back and wait for the RC to "take the lead." Since our Church has been founded I am not aware of any RC inviting us for any Pro-Life activities except a member of ours who is in the KofC.
We are just getting started with our Pro-Life stuff. We are going to be doing A LOT more in the near future. As soon as I get time I am going to help develop a website so that we can communicate and correlate our Pro-Life efforts.
With the help of the Holy Ghost, don't be surprise if our little Church doesn't do Great things in the near future. Good for you, Ray, and for your parish! We should be on the forefront of the cause of human life and the sacredness of matrimony - and where the Latins are not helping, we should be a bold witness to all! One of the things I admire about Bishop Andrew has been (so I have been told) his consistent effort to support the pro-life cause. Evidently he attends the March for Life rally in Washington, DC every year, which is a tremendous show of support to those who battle for the cause of life. Incidentally, on a personal note, I met my first Orthodox hierarch on stage at the NRL rally in Washington, DC. I had formed a pro-life band and we performed there, and one of the hierarchs greeted me afterwards. (I believe that he was from the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese.) I confessed to him my love for Orthodoxy, and he was very gracious and spoke very boldly, as I reall, for the pro-life cause. It made a deep impression upon me at the time. Gordo
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Originally posted by Pavel Ivanovich:
Andrew who are the CCC's? Sorry, I believe that's shorthand for the Catechism. Oh I do disagree here, as Latincat is so way off beam as to be backed by no one worth quoting in terms of the Catholic - Orthodox dialogue. In another thread he quoted CCC 2089 which says 2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."11Sure sounds like he's on solid ground to say we're schismatics. Much more so than if he had quoted something from ecumenical dialog as well. Andrew
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As I said above he has not got a clue about us Byz. (Orth. or Cath.). Some says something to him from some out of the way place over coffee and it is repeated here as official standpoint of a Church. The talks are going on at the top and this is what should be referred back to. It would reveal that some who share their views are in fact out of step with their particular Church and therefore their views should not be treated as having the same level of authority.
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Pavel, I understand all of that. The Catechism says what it says though, and my understanding is it is supposed to be sufficiently clear in its meaning not to allow for alternate interpretations. That is the nature of a catechism. The best I can make out is that there is actually some discernable ambiguity here when looking at the catechism and what other people are saying.
I'm also not a offended or bothered by LatinCat's statements.
Andrew
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Now for something completely different. Did anyone notice this in the Encyclical
Women Assisting at Mass
Pope Gelasius in his ninth letter (chap. 26) to the bishops of Lucania condemned the evil practice which had been introduced of women serving the priest at the celebration of Mass. Since this abuse had spread to the Greeks, Innocent IV strictly forbade it in his letter to the bishop of Tusculum: "Women should not dare to serve at the altar; they should be altogether refused this ministry." We too have forbidden this practice in the same words in Our oft-repeated constitution Etsi Pastoralis, sect. 6, no. 21.
Andrew
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For the benefit of those all-knowing Byzantine Catholics, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (or the CCC) is intended for, and applies to, ALL (and I mean A-L-L) Catholics! :p
If anyone has not read a page of the 800 or so pages of the original English translation, you have another chance at it with the recent release of its compendium, available at your nearest Catholic bookstore!
What a downer this is!
Amado
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