www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Toll Houses?

I read somewhere something about "Toll Houses" that a soul passes through to get to heaven, could someone please explain this to me and tell me why it is different from the western Purgatory.

I've heard something about toll houses too, and Father Seraphim Rose wrote about them in a book. Well, I know that ROCOR considers him a saint, but somehow I am not apt to agree with them.

A toll house is a stop on one's celestial journey. If a soul is not pure enough to continue it will be pulled down by a demon.

This theory is not accepted by all the Orthodox. Actually, according to St. Gregory Palamas, we are to obtain deification. This diefication is the vision of the uncreated Light. When a person attains the vision of the uncreated Light in the Person of the Logos, he is deified. The vision of the uncreated Light is "union and deification" of a person. During deification a person is united with God.

There are many degrees of vision of the Light. According to St. Gregory Palamas, "This vision of God has both a beginning and things after the beginning, varying in darkness and clarity; but there is no end at all, for its progress is infinite, like that of the ravishment in revelation". So there is no end to this vision of God, but an endless progression. In other words, we go from glory to glory.

Well I guess if one's soul is not able to continue it's journey from glory to glory, it might become a toll house stop.

Now that is my 'theologoumena'.

Zenovia

It's a folkloric description of the particular judgement that happens shortly after you die, a kind of 'performance review' (to use a modern metaphor) in which all your good and bad deeds are read out to you. Once that's done, then you go to heaven, hell or purgatory/the intermediate state.

Some Orthodox don't describe these destinations as three states but heaven and hell with a waiting room for each where souls wait until the resurrection of the body and are helped by the prayers of the saints and the faithful on earth.

I think this variety of opinion is possible because the Orthodox haven't defined doctrine on the nature of the afterlife.

Correct.

AFAIK they haven't canonised him.

Correct.

Reader Serge,

Good to see you here again.

Vitayemo vas!

In regards to the idea of toll houses, isn't it a primarily Russian/Eastern Slavic understadning?

I don't think it is accepted by the Greeks or any Athonite tradition, then again, I could be wrong.

-uc

I think belief in the toll-houses is primarily Slavic and not accepted by the Greeks today but read elsewhere that one of the concept's first promoters wasn't Slavic.

Dear GMMcnabb,

The toll-house is an interesting concept, and since it deals with the mystery of physical death, there is no official position regarding it.

The young fogey summarizes the toll-house thought best in his/her post.

On an interesting note, we commemorate our departed constantly for the first 40 days, with special liturgies on the 3rd, 9th, and 40th days (is this correct?). The toll house theory fills in what could possibly be happening to our loved one during this time, and the bottom line is:

Pray unceasingly for your loved one.

The mystery will be revealed to us in good time (when we enter the next stage of life, I think).

As mentioned, +Father Seraphim Rose wrote an excellent book on the theory of toll houses, and I suggest getting a copy and reading it. Please remember this is not Church thought, but for one who wishes to try to see into the mystery further, it provides something to think about.

There is another thread from last year discussing toll houses, so try a search.

In Christ,

Michael

I read a book a number of years back (I believe it was from Synaxis or Synaxarion Press) critiquing Father Seraphim's advocacy for "Toll House Myth", seeing it as a form of neo-Gnosticism with Orthodox dressing. Many of my books are in boxes, so I do not have an author or a full title.

Gordo

The Aerial Toll-House Myth: The Neo-Gnosticism of Fr Seraphim Rose by Rev. Dr Michael Azkoul and Presbytera Irene Matta, M.Th.


Just got it from Light and Life (or is it Life and Light?). Anyways, haven't read it yet. I found Seraphim Rose's work facinating, even though I don't know about the whole Toll House Theory.

In fact I read Seraphim Rose right when I started attending Orthodox services. Then I freaked out reading his "Life After Death" book and asked the priest at the parish I was attending about it.

He said it was hogwash basically. Fr. Seraphim's book titled "Religion of the Future" was excellent I thought. He wrote about how he thought UFO's were demonic, out of body experiences, and life after death experiences (when a person dies or almost dies, comes back to life, and has experienced what they precieve to be heaven, or in some rare cases hell).

Anyways, basically what I'm trying to say is the Toll House Theory freaked me out.

Nathan

I have never read Fr. Seraphim�s book or those of his critics on this topic. So I cannot comment on either.

My understanding of the Telonia is they are about one thing, and that is the discovery and coming to terms with our true selves as we await the final judgment. It is when we find out who we really are. This has nothing to do with punishment to expiate our sins.

How this really works is all speculation though, and the church has never defined the process. There are various testimonies though from monastic sources which while not dogmatic, do carry some authority.

In another thread I linked to a paper written from a purely scholarly perspective which I think has some background on this issue. I think it is not only interesting, but perhaps useful since it is free from some of the passionate feelings that surround this issue. The link is here .

Andrew

Dear Reader Serge,

A great honour and a true blessing to have you visit among us here!!

Welcome and may God bless you richly in your online ministry!

Poklin!

Alex

Dear Friends,

Re: Toll Houses

I sometimes come across EC priests who affirm them as if they were Orthodox doctrine . . .

And I've seen prayers (one to St Nicholas) that mention them outright.

For me, the Toll House experience affirms that we will be protected by Angels after death (by at least two) and that truly does make the whole posited experience bearable!

Alex

One Orthodox theologian [I forget which one ] called the toll house theory "the final triumph of Pelagianism"...
-Daniel

Can I use my E-Z Pass to go through the express lane or do I have to wait in line?



-uc

Dear Daniel,

I hope he's right about the toll houses - it doesn't sound like a pleasant experience!

But even the icon of the Dormition is predicated on the toll houses - the Theotokos asked her Son to come and take her to heaven so as to avoid that experience and Christ is depicted standing over His Mother's bier etc.

I don't see how the toll houses are a form of Pelagianism - one could posit that the judgement of our sins etc. as a whole could be a form of Pelagianism in that case . . .

Alex