www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Girl's First Communion Nixed Over Wheat-Free Wafer

I don't understand it, either. Those allergies are everywhere now. As a teacher I have seen an increase in "learning disabilities" among children. I don't recall those being around when I was a student. It has been suggested that all the drug use among the parents has caused some of the learning disabilities and some retardation. I dont' know if any studies could ever substantiate this. But something surely is wrong.

Agua,

Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy has no conceivable relationship to the issue.

Many years,

Neil

Sounds like the mother had no desire to cooperate with the Church, which did make an effort to accomodate the girl's allergy. It sounds like the mother's own agenda is more important to her than whether or not the child receives communion.

Neil wrote:

"Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy has no conceivable relationship to the issue."

Sorry, Neil, you're out of your league here. When a child has no illness/allergy, but the parent reports symptoms to the physician, this is Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy, now called Factitious Disorder by Proxy. This may account for a rise in the aforementioned allergies that didn't exist 20 or 30 years ago. The mother projects into her child the need to be treated for medical symptoms as a way of gaining secondary benefit, ie, attention and support from the doctor, or perhaps in this case, all of the media attention. Perhaps you should confine your remarks to something you actually know about.

I am in agreement with Neil here .

The discussion is about the Mother's insistence that she will not accept the Church's teaching on Valid Communion.

Mom wants her own way - and will do anything to get it.

She has gained World wide publicity now - I wonder what her next topic will be.

I cannot think that any of the babies and infants in the Eastern Churches who have been given Communion from infancy following their Baptism and Chrismation have suffered in any way - indeed they have been fed spiritually - which sadly is something that the RC Church does not do

Anhelyna

Dear byzanTN,

Ridilin, and other drugs are sometimes used to sedate unruly kids rather than to treat a disorder.

As far as learning disabilities, my wife and I hypothesize that since, in our state, the school district gets double funding for "special education" kids there is a financial incentive to place kids, whether they need it or not, into special education programs. I have no data to back that up, but the practice should be studied.

Paul

This issue is really taking an ugly turn in our local newspapers. It seems that the Catholic church is really taking a beating on this by those who have no idea of what Holy Communion is all about. But what is new when you can kick Christianity in the butt any chance you get. Most if not all those who are objecting to the churches rules on the make up of Communion are at best unkowingly lax in their faith. Otherwise they would not be saying the things they are saying.

JoeS

JoeS

Yes, the mother is using the media to gain attention to herself and the media is using the mother to further it's anti-Catholic agenda. They're both trying to make it a David v. Goliath scenario. I feel sorry for the girl, who apparently can digest the gluten-free host, but is being used as a pawn by her mother and the media for furtherance of their respective agendas.

I agree with byzanTN. In the Roman Catholic Church, one may receive Communion under either Species. The mother didn't want to cooperate. In all charity, though, we don't know her circumstances and perhaps she has more reason to fear alcohol than others. It certainly appears she just got a solution in her head and wanted to force it on the priest, though.

Gluten allergy is unusual. I have a co-worker with it. He is a Roman Catholic. It showed up when he was an adult. It has never been an issue for him. They do exactly for him what the priest offered to do for this girl - at his wedding, they had a special chalice for him. He says if he calls up the chancery, they accommodate him cheerfully before Mass.

Someone observed that allergies, learning disabilities, etc. seem more common lately in kids. Probably true. I used to tutor learning disabled kids when I was a college student at a summer school. Of about 25 kids, I'd say three were truly and obviously learning disabled. Several were what I would describe as brilliant -way above average but not recognized as such. The rest were at least average, but willing to try harder if motivated. The big advantage I had being a college student/tutor over their teachers was that I was closer to being a kid myself. They'd tell me what they were interested in and about their lives. Two common things I noticed: their parents were "always at work" and the kids seemed to feel they were vying for attention - and the kids were just dying to tell someone about things they read or wrote or thought up. One couple came to the last day of school and thanked me for helping their son - I had told him he should show his parents some stories he'd been writing. They were excellent. Somehow, he didn't do well in English in school. From what I could tell, he didn't think anyone really cared or had time for him, so he sort of retreated a little. When the adults at summer school saw what he could do, then he felt a sense of accomplishment and brought out years of creativity. Even the other kids were amazed. What's scary is that his parents did not see his talent.

I know a lot of parents who seem to try to find reasons to think their kids have something wrong. I don't get it. One of my sis-in-laws is convinced her daughter, an A student in 3rd grade, has ADHD. Why? The little girl runs around for "no reason at all." She pointed out the suspect behavior to me one time - in fact, her daughter was running around the yard, with her sister, chasing a butterfly from plant to plant and then trying to guess where it would go and running there first. When I suggested this was part of being a kid, I got looks of horror. I can tell you that, even as an adult, I still run around for no reason at all and think chasing butterflies is just fine. It's an expression of joy. St. Francis would have approved. I just guess not all parents would.

Agua,

Since you have no notion what constitutes something that I "actually know about", perhaps you should confine yourself to commenting on those about whom you know anything.

I assure you that I am very familiar with Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy, including the first published report of celiac sprue as a manifestation of the syndrome (Lasher, LJ & Feldman, MD. Celiac disease as a manifestation of munchausen by proxy. South Med J; 97(1): 67-69 (Jan. 2004)). On the basis of a single reported case (if you were aware of same), unless you can offer a nexus that isn't readily apparent, I'm unprepared to concede that this instance ought to be so categorized. I have seen neither any supported evidence that the mother in this case is suspected of reporting unsubstantiated symptomatology nor even any suggestions of same.

As to increases in illnesses/allergies over the prior 20/30 years representing manifestations of the syndrome - Any who would summarily dismiss same need to realize that epidemiological data on infant/child morbidity and mortality over that time frame (actually more like 30-40 years) suggests that such increases are attributable in major measure to:

a. increased access to health care, secondary to better though, as yet, still inadequate health insurance coverage;

b. increased and more sophisticated medical technology, allowing definitive diagnosis of symptomatology that would formerly have been dismissed as non-specific and, therefore, not amenable to therapeutic intervention;

c. increased parental awareness of signs and symptoms and their potential import, as a consequence of both improved consumer health education and media attention to health matters;

d. increased collection and reporting of data on (even routine, i.e., well-child) health care encounters as a factor of both "a." above and of government intrusiveness into the patient/physician relationship; and,

e. decreased infant/child mortality attributable to "unspecified" or "undetermined" cause.

That any statistically significant percentage of increases in illness/allergies is attributable to Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy is a stretch that is neither measurable nor likely to be reality, although unquestionably fodder for future books by "experts", such as Ms. Lasher.

Many years,

Neil

Neil,
Your answer was long on words, short on wisdom. You fail to look at the dynamics between mother and child and the secondary benefit the mother receives from having a sick child. Look at the other posts and you will see that others also recognize that something is amiss among the parents. Your sweeping judgment that Munchausen's could have nothing to do with the issue is shortsided, and frankly, rude. Methinks someone who has posted over 1200 messages on this sight has a little too much time on his hands.

"The Diocese offered mustum ( wine which had the fermentation process prematurely stopped, very little alcohol)

The mother also refused this offer, stating that ANY alcohol is too much for a child and it was her right as a parent to not have alcohol 'forced' on her child. "

A correction and a comment: mustum is not wine which has had the fermentation process stopped, rather just the opposite. It is grape juice which has just begun the fermentation process. There is nothing special about it make grape juice and don't pastuerize it and you have mustum. Most kosher grape juices like Kedem are 100% natural, no additives, no perservatives and would be perfectly acceptable for use by priests or individuals in need of this dispensation.

Therefore this lady is either: misinformed, as to what mustum is (and many are); a hypocrite, because I can't imagine she forbids her daughter from drinking grape or any other fruit juice which naturally have a small percentage of alcohol; or nuts, because the alcohol level in grape juice is 1% or less.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Agua,

I made no judgement, pro or con, about the mother's motivation in this situation. I did point out that I don't see Munchausen's by proxy as a likely factor, nor do I see anyone but you suggesting it. The seemingly unreasonable stance taken by the parent may be an indicator of some pathology on her part, but for you to suggest that it evinces Munchausen by proxy is more than a stretch, it's untenable.

And, btw, celiac sprue is not a "wheat allergy", it is the inability to digest gluten, a malabsorption disorder characterized by damage to the lining of the jejunum or small intestine. The disease is genetic and a proper diagnosis should not and need not rely merely on reporting of symptoms; in addition to history and physical examination, the standard of care demands a blood panel and biopsy. The specificity with which celiac disease can be diagnosed should virtually eliminate the opportunity for it to become a means to end for Munchausen proxy.

And, speaking of rude, I think you took the prize for that with your initial suggestion that I limit myself to posting on matters of which I'm knowledgeable. As to your suggestion that I have too much time on my hands, as soon as I hear from my brothers and sisters here that my presence has outlived its welcome, I'll leave; until then, I'll worry about how I use my time, you don't need to, but thanks.

Many years,

Neil

Agua,

This thread seems to be getting a wee bittie bad tempered .

I think we are all in agreement that

1) the child in question did not receive a valid Communion

2) the Church [ in this case the Roman Catholic Church] has insisted and continues to do that all Hosts are made from unleavened wheaten bread.

3) After Consecration the Body and Most Precious Blood of Our Lord and Saviour is present ti the Host as well as in the the Most Precious Blood - either or both may be Received and the recipient has Received the Body and Blood of Christ.

4) the Mother was informed of this and her child was offered Communion from the Chalice only .

5) the Child does have an intolerance to gluten - but this is not imediately fatal - it is not like a severe peanut allergy which if not timeously treated,can result in a very short time in the affected person't untimely death.

6) the mother has continued to attempt to dictate to the RC Church that her child MUST receive a rice Host - this is not possible but she wishes to have her own way .

To me none of this indicates Munchausen by proxy [ and yes I also am familiar with this condition, having looked after a child whose mother was so affected]

Maybe we should be praying for this mother as well as the child, both are in acute need of catechesis

Anhelyna

Just a note on the increase in allergies and athsma. It is a real phenomenon, even taking into account increased awareness and access to health care resources.

An interesting article just out:

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/story.jsp?story=555158


It is also worth noting that in the last couple of decades there has been an explosion in the ubiquity of fragranced household products. Fragrance is an unregulated and highly secretive industry. Of the over 3000 chemicals in common use in the fragrance industry, many are known dermal, respiratory and/or eye irritants. There are only beginning to be some decent studies on what the effect of this ongoing assault does to the body over time. A few forward-looking locales, and a number of hospitals have banned fragrances. Stay tuned, I think we'll hear a lot more about it in the next couple years.

Likewise, on a side note there has been an explosion in the number of people (especially in the health care industry) with severe, often life threatening allergies to latex. If you've got a baby, and you must use a bottle, PLEASE use the clear (silicon) nipples, NOT the brown (latex) ones. Latex is a POWERFUL allergen, and there is not a single good reason to challenge a baby's immature immune system with it.

Formula feeding, and giving babies solid foods before 6 months, BOTH of which are overwhelmingly common practices in the US (where breasts may be used to sell cars or booze, but certainly NOT to feed infants) are also both practices which also increase the risk of allergies. An infant's gut is "open" until about 6 months, allowing all sorts of proteins to flow much more easily into the bloodstream. Babies were designed to use the food God provided. Start throwing other stuff into the system and it mucks things up.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw all this in. BTW, we have a family at church who are celiac folks. It's never been a big deal. Father skips the solids, they receive Jesus, and all is well.

Cheers,

Sharon
(who does NOT buy fragranced products, whose kids have never, ever tasted formula, and who has donated over 500 lbs of breastmilk over the last almost three years - the good Lord made me a good cow)