www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Dispensation to receive Orthodox Sacraments

What about a few years back when the Patriarch of Moscow allowed Roman Catholics from the Baltic states to communicate in the Orthodox Churches as an act of friendship?

Latin Trad:

I believe that the Documents of Vatican II give a Latin or Eastern Catholic the permission to receive the Mysteries in an Orthodox Church in the situation that is being described here. It's since been codified in the Codes of Canon Law for both the Latin and the Eastern Churches. I attended a seminar on the Documents in the late 1960s and the presenting priest explained that in this type of situation a Catholic may do whatever is necessary to prevent himself/herself from being cut off from the sacraments/mysteries for a prolonged period of time. That even goes as far as making a Profession of Faith if the Orthodox priest required that: and that means actually joining the Orthodox Church for the period of time one is not able to be part of a Catholic community. The point being that no one is saved as a "rugged individual"--to coin an Americna phrase. We are saved in community; we need others to help us carry our burdens and support us both spiritually and physically. We also need a priest in Apostolic Orders to give us Holy Communion and absolve us periodically. Then there is the issue of needing to link oneself with a spiritual father for one's ongoing formation in the spiritual life.

In Christ,

BOB

Pax Christi!

Though this is a little bit not in connection with the topic, I'd like to ask if Catholics will be allowed to receive the Sacrament of Reconcillation/Confession in Orthodox Churches if there is no available Catholic priest in the area? Also, will Orthodox priests give the last rites for a dying Catholic if not RC priest available? Will there be impediment? Thanks!

ruel

Ruel:

A close friend of mine is an Orthodox priest of the OCA. He says no in all three situations. I had asked him to become my temporary spiritual father and confessor some time ago and this was his answer.

He has prayed for me and served an occasional Molieben for intentions that I had--once when my wife faced life-threatening surgery. But the Mysteries are off-limits. I don't know what other Orthodox clergy from other jurisdictions would say.

In Christ,

BOB

I was told by an Orthodox priest that if I were near death he would give me absolution if my priest could not be reached. He also would read the prayers of the separation of soul and body.

anastasios

The situation on the island of Crete is a bit more lenient. From the webpage of the Catholic Church in Crete:

http://www.interkriti.net/ccc/001.htm

On another positive note from another page on this site. In one city a Sunday evening Mass is held in an Orthodox chapel since there is no Latin Church.

David Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Thanks y'all for the responses. Unfortunately, it looks like my friend isn't going to receive the Sacraments if the Orthodox are stingy with them. Hopefully he just won't move somewhere where his spiritual needs won't be met.

So, following her own ecclesiology and discipline the Orthodox Church is "stingy" with the Holy Mysteries? What a cheap shot! I guess you would like to hear some Protestant say the same thing about the Catholic Church if it wont give him the Sacraments?

This seems to be bringing us back to what has been mentioned before - where quietly , I understand in some areas it has been possible. No Tony , I can't quote from my own knowledge - but it has been mentioned on the Forum before.

Certainly ,to my own knowledge, the Anglican Church will administer the Saraments , if asked, to members of another Church if attendance at that Church is not possible over a period of time . I as a Methodist received Communion in the Anglican Church in Geneva when I worked there.

I think each case needs to be considered on an individual basis - according to the person's needs.

Obviously no-one would move really willlingly to an area where they could not worship with theior own Faith Community - but if the removal is forced by their employment - well that's a different kettle of fish.

If that is the case then I think that the person concerned should quietly arrange to see the Priest in the Parish and put their case. Perhaps, just perhaps, after a time and when he is known as a person and not just as a stranger who has popped up in their midst a frutful resolution to the problem may be made.

Anhelyna

I think the Oriental Orthodox are more open to this situation than the Eastern Orthodox. I know that the Assyrians, Coptics and Armenians will dispense the Sacraments/Mysteries of Eucharist, Forgiveness, and Anointing of the Sick to any Catholic in cases of emergency. I am not talking about individual priests. This is the official agreement we Oriental Orthodox have with the Pope of Rome.

Marduk

Tony,

In defense of Peter Edwards, I do not think the comparison with Protestants is equal. Protestants do not generally believe in the Real Presence or the divine energies that may be found in the Sacraments. But that is not the case between Catholics and Orthodox. Thus, "stingy," though it might seem insulting, is not altogether inappropriate. In any case, even Catholics are allowed to dispense the Mysteries to Protestants in cases of emergencies if they are "properly disposed," so the Protestants have no justification to assign the same adjective to Catholics.

Marduk

Anhelyna,

I do not dispute any of the above. I think you have missed the point.

The Anglican Church in the USA (Episcopal Church) practices open communion, that is well known. Many other Protestant bodies do likewise. This really is, however, not what we are talking about.

The RCC has its own discipline based on its own ecclesiology and canonical tradition. The RCC does not normatively commune those it does not deem to be in some form of communion with it. This in the USA is made obvious in the back of the Missalette. Protestants should not approach Communion in the RCC without approval. There are simply norms to be followed, it is not a free-for-all.

As far as I can ascertain the person in question (in this thread) has not made an attempt to resolve his situation other than weigh the information provided on this board. Yet, the official position of the Orthodox Church has been described as "stingy." I remain unconvinced.

Tony

Marduk,

The problem is that you are making it clear that "Protestants in cases of emergencies [and] if they are 'properly disposed'" yet this is being contrasted to the normative practice of the Orthodox Church. Please, compare the nomative practice of the RCC (not in cases of emergency, etc) which is not to commune Protestants (among others) with the normative practice of the Orthodox Church (which is not to commune non-Orthodox). Emergencies and other not-normal situations call for responses appropriate to the need.

Tony

Tony - I have not missed the point !

I know and back you on what you have said - but each case must be taken individually.

It's no use us - as lay people - making these decisions . Only the clergy have the right to do that.

I in no way ,say that this person should receive the Sacraments in a Church of which he is not a member , but from time to time there are extenuating circumstances.

Having said that - to me the Orthodox position is crystal clear - and I back it - it's not stingy - it is what they have always held - and it's their right to continue to hold it.

Oh BTW the Anglican Church in the UK does not practice open Communion - I was permitted to receive as a case of Pastoral need - no Church for me there.

Anhelyna

Yet apparently this has not been done.