www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Dispensation to receive Orthodox Sacraments

Certainly ,to my own knowledge, the Anglican Church will administer the Saraments , if asked, to members of another Church if attendance at that Church is not possible over a period of time . I as a Methodist received Communion in the Anglican Church in Geneva when I worked there.

Of course, because that one is an indifferentist religion, in communion with Scottish Presbyterians, Scandinavian Lutherans and other sects with enormous differences but all of them get along. If you can find a Bible protestant service and a Catholic-like liturgy why not giving communion to a broad specter of Christians. Moreover, if you take communion there you're just taking a piece of bread and wine, nothing more.

Glory be to Jesus Christ!! Glory be to Him forever and ever!!!

We may have gotten far removed from the Apostolic practice with this discussion. Contrasting Catholic and Orthodox practice in this area is a bit unfair because the Catholic position has only made the pastoral approach now taken since Vatican II.

If we are to be fair, we should contrast the Orthodox position with that of the Catholic Church in the 19th and up to about the mid-20th century. Things were very strict and that strictness comes from the centuries of practice coming out of our common life in the pre-schism Church. Catholics have never practiced open communion or the dispensing of the mysteries to those outside her visible membership. And I think that it is a mistake for those of us discussing these pastoral dispensations as a move toward the open communion practices of Protestantism. It's been made very plain in instructions that I have seen that this is strictly a decision to be made by the clergy and is not to be made by a layman assuming something he ought not to assume. The priest determines what is a true emergency. And the bishops of the United States, as I have been told, have made it clear on several occasions that the type of emergency envisioned should be a really rare thing given the fact that most people in the country have access to clergy of their own.

I thank my Orthodox brothers and sisters for their witness to the Apostolic practice of making it really clear that what they have is the "Pearl of Great Price" and is not to be shared with those outside the Faith. I also thank God that the pastoral approach outlined by the Vatican Council has been put into practice for some cases that I am familiar with and have experienced. There is a tension here that is good and needs to remain so that no one gets the idea that Christ, humbly coming to us in the Mysteries, is of little value. Certainly one who views the Mystery as a symbol or mere memorial should not receive Him Who lives in the appearances of earthly food but Who has utterly changed it by the Holy Spirit.

In Christ,

BOB

I've never quite gotten the concept of an "emergency" reception of Holy Communion. While I understand somewhat the Latin concept of viaticum, I'm not sure what the "emergency" really is.

What about for Easterners, particularly according to Byzantine theology? While I realize that the Holy Eucharist is viewed as "food for the journey", i.e., into eternal life, and that the pious Christian believer would certainly hope to be able to receive the Eucharist in the last moments of life, is there really such a concept as an "emergency situation" for receiving Holy Communion?

Tony,

I was not comparing the "emergency" case with the normal practice of Orthodoxy. I thought the whole point of the thread was concerned only with "emergency" cases. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I certainly would not expect the Orthodox to dispense the Mysteries to those not in communion with us under normal circumstances.

Lemko,

There are many "emergency" situations which override the normal administration of the Sacraments, even in the Bible. Take for example the thief on the cross, who was baptized by blood, not by water. I think it is because of the extreme importance of the Mysteries, not despite them, that "emergency" cases exist. The wonder and power of the Sacraments is beyond our comprehension, and our ability to limit.

I have heard and read that the term "sister churches" is a source of tension between some Eastern Orthodox and Catholics. Such tension does not exist between the Oriental Orthodox and Catholics. Oriental Orthodox welcome the Catholic Church as a "sister church" with full recognition of her apostolic succession. There does not seem (to me anyway) any sufficient reason to restrict the divine economy when a member of a sister Church is in need of the spiritual blessings of the Mysteries in view of the fact that the fellow Christian (of the sister Church) does not have access to a pastor of his or her own church.

Blessings,
Marduk

I apologize for saying "stingy"; I didn't mean for it to come off harshly. I just think that in individual cases of spiritual need, like in the case of my friend, the Churches can drop their games and take care of these individuals.

Since my own Church is willing to communicate members of other Churches (and I'm speaking mainly about other Apostolic Succession Churches; I don't appreciate any parallels between Protestants and Catholics or Orthodox) in grave emergencies, I guess I expect the Orthodox to do the same.

Any refusal just seems like defiant posturing that can potentially harm innocents, or a denial of the validity of Catholic Orders. I mean, that's really not even on the table to me. Protestants: definitely no Orders, Anglicans: some individuals have Orders through the Orthodox or schismatic Catholic sects, Catholics: is there any doubt? Our Priests HAVE IT.

So, personally, my inconsequential layperson belief is that if I'm randomly shot in front of an Orthodox Church, I expect them to take care of me! I mean...if a person dying on your front porch doesn't turn your heart, I don't know what would.

Dear Peter,

A friend who is now an Orthodox Bishop (of Albanian origin) was asked many years ago what he would do if Mother Theresa (also of Albanian origin) were to approach the chalice to commune. He replied that he would bend down and kiss her feet, but he wouldn't commune her.

There are many ways to feed His sheep. The eucharist is but one method, one that declares both dogmatic and ecclesial unity. These are not "games" to us in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Please reconsider your choice of words.

I hope that this was helpful.

With love in Christ,
Andrew

I didn't think what I said was particularly offensive to the Orthodox; I included the Catholic Church in my statement, although they're not as guilty, since they are more open to sharing the Sacraments for pastoral good.

BTW, this guy, whose behalf I was writing on, hasn't responded in months to that thread over on the other forum; he's probably not interested in receiving Orthodox sacraments anyway.

Who would want to receive the mysteries in the Anglican Church? Since they are null and void anyway.

Stephanos I

When I was a young priestmonk, I worked as a hospice chaplain in a large eastcoast metropolitan area. On two occasions during my time as chaplain, I had to call the local Roman priest to come and confess and anoint someone who was actively dying. On these two occasions both priests refused to come (one lived ONE MILE from the dying person's home, but complained that it was snowing...so he told ME to "take care of it."). On both occasions I heard the Confessions and gave Unction of the Sick. I later asked our Metropolitan if I had acted correctly...and he responded, "Oh course Father...it is ALWAYS better to err on the side of charity, especially if it is a matter of life and death." Further, let me say that looking back, I would exactly the same thing today. My conscience is completely clear.

Is this the ordinary way for an Orthodox priest to function? No, probably not...but there are times when one must pray for guidance and then do what it seems that Christ Jesus Our Lord would have us do.

In His Holy Name,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory

Bless, Father Archimandrite Gregory!

(For which St Gregory are you named, may I ask?)

Well, when my father was taken to hospital having suffered a heart attack, my brother went into the Orthodox Church across the street and pulled the priest out from hearing confessions!

The priest. Father Bublyk, excused himself to the parishioners and came running to anoint my father etc.

Later, our Catholic chaplain came and we told him that dad had already been anointed by an Orthodox priest . . .

He smiled and then began to ask what I thought were nit-picky questions as to "form" and "content" etc. Sorry, but that really turned me off!

At my father's funeral later, there was Bishop Borecky present, along with a number of priests who were all officiating.

At the Final Kiss, the Orthodox Father Bublyk appeared and came and hugged my mother and us.

I showered Fr. Bublyk with kisses on his hands and face and hugged him very much! My brother imitated what I was doing.

I could see out of the corner of my eye that our clergy were eyeing me, almost suspiciously, and wondering what we were doing being so nice to the Orthodox priest?

Perhaps we were thinking of joining Orthodoxy, they thought?

I remember Father Bublyk at that terrible time and hardly our other Catholic clergy.

Alex

Dear Stephanos,

At the time of King Charles II of Britain, the King became a secret Roman Catholic - but continued to receive the sacraments in the Anglican church, apparently with the blessing of his Catholic confessor . . .

His brother, King James II, became a staunch Roman Catholic, however, and communicated only in the Catholic Church.

An even greater womanizer than his brother, James II lost in the Battle of the Boyne, and became a monk in France.

When the revolutionaries, years later, opened up his tomb, they saw that his body had not decomposed . . .

I had to tell you that!

Alex

Alex, +The LORD bless you! Thank you so much for sharing your personal experience with us. It means a GREAT deal to me!

My heavenly patron is St. Gregory the Dialogist, Pope of Rome.

In His Holy Name,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory

Bless, Father Archimandrite!

I must warn you that your presence here does pose a proximate danger to the faith of many Eastern Catholics . . .

You are so wonderfully spiritual (and wonderful period) that we all run the risk of feeling more inclined to unite with you in Holy Orthodoxy.

More inclined than usual, that is

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing!

Alex

Many Orthodox will insist that the Orthodox Church does not have "last rites." My understanding of Holy Unction as administered by the Orthodox Church is that it is to be given to the sick but not the dieing.

In other words, while there is reasonable hope that one will recover, we administer unction. Once one is on the final way out, we don't annoint, but we certainly offer the eucharist to the dieing members of our Church.

I'll be the first to admit that the priciple has problematic aspects in that:

(A) the Orthodox priest is not a doctor and thus not always able to discern the difference between a sick person and a dieing one. And

(B) miraculous healings, when all others have given up hope, often occur by the hand of the Lord through his ministers.

It is a fascinating topic, but one that needs discernment of the differing approaches, East and West, to administering the sacraments.

With love in Christ,
Andrew

Dear Reader Andrew,

Do not Orthodox Christians have an opportunity to receive the Mystery of the Anointing on four different occasions of the year, one of them being Holy Wednesday in Passion Week?

Would you know what the other times are?

And what is the significance of this anointing?

Alex