www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Novus Ordo Liturgy Seen As An Obstacle To Ecumenism With Eastern Orthodoxy

can someone help me out here? I looked at tha picture of the clown 'Mass', and I still can't figure out which one in the pic is the clown. HELP ME HERE, PEOPLE!
Much Love,
Jonn

Originally posted by John:

That would be the fellow �center-stage� wearing the polka-dot stole with large fuzzy red fringe tassels (just the other day I saw what appeared to be identical tassels on sale at a local craft fair). If you visit the parish website, it has posted (or did) a picture of the same priest (sans clown vestments). If you look hard enough on the website, you will also find the archived text of his clown mass homily.


~Isaac

Isaac,

As the modern day Jews say "Next year in Jerusalem!"

We'll leave the light on for you. (it's always on here).

No. It is not identical at all, and you owe all those good faithful orthodox Catholics who live and prosper spiritually in the Latin rite, Novus Ordo, and who are in large part responsible for any changes that will occur for the better, a heartfelt apology.

They did not cut and run. They cried and stayed and prayed and wrote letters, and sat unacknowledged week after week, year after year, and you don't even know their names.

Best you can to is liken them to indifferentists.


Eli

The problems and abuses experienced in various RC parishes are pretty much well known and exposed...I do not think any further brow beating is needed...that's over kill and uncharitable.

Though prayers for the Vox Clara Committee and all involved are gladly welcomed and appreciated...well at least by me.

PAX
james

Eli,

I�ll wager I have just as much knowledge and understanding of our churches history as you ascribe to yourself. No matter. My intent was not to highjack this thread, nor go round and round in circles with you, as is your wont. I will therefore be a good little Eastern Catholic and, as is customary in all matters pertaining to the Latins, shut up.

In parting - no - you (nor anyone else) will receive an apology from me, heartfelt or otherwise, for expressing my views on the topic under discussion.


~Isaac

I spent 4 years of my time helping the traditional RCs here circulate petitions, collect them, and present them to the local RC bishop so they could have the Traditional Mass. Why? I am a Byzantine and made it clear to the RC chancery that I had no legal standing to ask for that mass. However, the chancellor understood that these folks did not feel at home in the local churches, so he was OK with me helping out some friends, since I knew how to do the required paperwork. They now have the Traditional Latin Mass both locally and also in Chattanooga. The Church seems to accomodate nearly everyone else, so I thought the Trads should have some options, too. For those who can't tolerate the Novus Ordo, there is a legal way to petition for the Traditional Mass. However, I never failed to mention the merits of the East. But as to the original topic, I don't think the Novus Ordo is a barrier to ecumenism with orthodoxy. The problems are more differences in interpreting theology and in church governance.

To All,

Threads such as this one, though I would like to avoid them, for some reason draw me. I guess maybe it's because I'm Roman Catholic.

It has taken me far too long to realize that I don't belong here on this forum.....even as a guest.

The contempt shown towards the Novus Ordo, which is the most widespread liturgy of the Roman Church, and is celebrated thousands of times a day throughout the entire world without abuses, bewilders me.

Sure there are hymns I don't particularly care for, and certainly prayers could be worded differently, and the priest could even face east,....... but the abuses everyone writes about here are often not the same abuses that come to my mind.

I now understand that far too many here on this forum, consider the Novus Ordo itself to be an abuse. If Christ himself were to celebrate it, (although I now realize he wouldn't), it still wouldn't be good enough.

There is no place here for me, I don't belong.
I apologize that it took this long for me to figure that out.

It is not my wish to leave bitterly, for many here have shown great charity and kindness, but as I said before, threads like this one draw me, so I simply will no longer post.

Prayerfully Yours,
Bill

Stay the course Bill. Use these times as a way to educate those who do not know. Remember that many of the most negative posters are those who fled the Latin rite and who are more than happy to grind their axe with those who do not have your experience. Don't give that kind of "educator" a free hand.

Do not take offense even if offense is intended. You have nothing to be ashamed of or for. Do not become just another source of division.

Eli

I wouldn't call the Novus Ordo an abuse, although some, including clergy who certainly should know better, have abused it. At the same time, Ecclesia Dei recognized that some are attached to the earlier mass, and made provision for it. I don't see a problem there.

Bill stay and contribute. If everyone who had a different point of view did likewise there would be no one left and it would be very boring here. Give as good as you get mate. Now what were you saying?

We do tend to attract a few who obsess about the "Traditional" Mass as being the solution to all. Most I suspect were not around for the 15 minute mass and possibly think the High Church ritual of the C of E was the norm for RCs when it was far from it.

Am I the only Roman Catholic here who's "home parish" is Novus Ordo and yet still very much dislikes the Novus Ordo Mass no matter if it's celebrated [as] perfectly [as it can be]?

Just curious. Any other Latins here in that same boat?

Logos Teen

This is off topic now and one brief response, I attend the modern rite at a parish that does the best in my area, though it is 15 miles away, it offers a place that is fitting to bring my grandkids to...proper reverence, sacred images etc.

I feel the Holy Spirit present there...after entering my tears flow...the last time that occurred was at Our Lady of Wisdom in Las Vegas, and I follow where the Spirit leads me.

james

ps we all say a pun or two about ourselves...wish I knew why.

Bill,

By all means do stay. Although I did not agree with your posts on this topic, I found them both constructive and informative and in furtherance of the broader dialogue here regarding the liturgy.

Hear hear Charles - the problem is not with the Mass itself - it's the 70's educated priests who decided to go and do their own thing - and this has just stayed . Now the person in the pew is beginning to question things and wonder why some things are done.

Mass can be beautifully celebrated with real devotion - that's a wonderful experience [ thinking of 3 Masses I was at on 3 successive days recently ]

But when it's bad because a Priest thinks he knows the best way to celebrate and thinks that the language can be improved by simplifying it , and that some things are not important so omits them and even worse changes the Words of the Consecration - well then people hear it and start to mutter.

The sad thing to my mind is that I'm certain that most NO [ I hate that term] Msses are well prepared and well celebrated by the clergy - but it's the old story - the occasional rotten apples in the barrel are the ones that everyone talks about.

Now remember - till a year ago - I was canonically NOT Eastern Catholic - I was at Mass every week and I thought the one I attended was abuse free - it's only recently that I realised it was not.

I still think that Mass when correctly celebrated - and the devotion of Priest and people then shine through - it's wonderfilled . Thank God for Priests who are faithfull to their Tradition.

Bill - stay here - don't go

We are in the silly season at present - it's so hot that tempers rise and we start to squabble again.