www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West use of incense in western Catholic mass

I'm keeping this one. Fits into so many threads, and can't be repeated often enough.

Well, the normative Sunday Mass/Holy Day Mass prior to the liturgical reform was the Solemn High Mass, which uses incense generously.

As some have stated, Low Mass sometimes became the norm in the average parish church, and thus did not include incense. But Low Mass was/is not the normative style of Mass, even if it was common.

For the Novus Ordo, I don't know the rules really except that one can use incense at the Sunday Mass, maybe every Mass, who knows? There are some parishes that use it every Sunday, though they are very few and far between.

Logos Teen

The Latin rite never really did make the same use of incense that has historically been used in other rites and Churches.

The High Mass in the Latin rite is not a high mass because it is sung or chanted. A low mass can also be chanted. The real difference historically is in the employ of the minor orders during the mass, deacon and sub-deacon.

Eastern churches use incense in their liturgies even if there is no one on the altar at all, but the priest.

Therein lie the practical differences, in short.

Eli

Because it's true? Thank you for your kind words. Don't be so easily offended, please.

CDL

Thank you. CDL

Some seem to ignore the point of my post. Protestants tend to run their pastors or think they ought to. Generally much more respect is given to a priest by his people. Yet what happened in that Church and some others I attended is that the people seem to intimidate the priest. I rejoice if that is not happening in your particular parish but I think most people over 30 know that it is happening in some parishes.

There seems to be alot of talk about tolerance but I don't always see it shown in some posts here. I think it comes with being able to laugh at ones own foibles.

CDL

At certain times of year, incense is used by the RC church where I am organist. However, people complain like mad every time because it irritates them and makes their allergies flare up. And please, don't talk about the quality of the incense. The pastor is using the best and most costly he can find. Do people in general have more allergies now than in the past? I have noticed among my school students that asthma and allergies seem to be more common than when I was a student. Has anyone else noticed this?

Given the fact that every eastern Catholic, and every Orthodox Church in the world fills with incense every Sunday and nobody complains, I'd suggest that Catholics from the west are far more prone to allergies than Catholics from the east.

Oh, but wait. I think that in the U.S. they'd all pretty much be from the same breeding population living in very similar artificial indoor environments, although some eastern parish churches are too poor for central air. Oh well.

Must be some other factor then, what say?

Eli

Who knows? You may have a point about the air conditioning. Certainly, if the windows are open, there would be less of a concentration. Easterners do grow up with incense and are more accustomed to it, while its use is infrequent in the West. At the RC church I mentioned, I am half a city block away in the organ loft so it never bothers me.

Dear Charles and All,

I agree with Charles it seems to be people are more prone to allergies these days, and that also applies to other illnesses as well. Diabetes being one example.

The use of incense however presents a whole different phenomena. Many Latins seem to be wimps when it comes to incense. I remember as a child my parish had three priests and three Masses,One High Mass and two low Masses, on Sunday mornings. My elderly great aunt who lived with my grandmother right down the street from me wouldn't attend High Mass because she didn't like the incense while my grandmother attended the High Mass almost every Sunday. They rarely ever attended Mass together because of incense. The funny thing about this is, I remember my aunt smoking a cigarette on occasion and my grandmother would always let her displeasure with it be known.

I've noticed in my present parish that the sight of the censer, often before even a wisp of smoke has drifted from it, will cause at least a couple of people to start coughing, more a reflex action than any actual irritation. Eastern Christians are used to incense. If they're going to church it's a given there's going to be incense used, no big deal. I guess what I'm trying to say here is it's a matter of conditioning.

One of the former pastors at my present parish was quite liberal with the use of incense when he would use it. I recall one Palm Sunday after he sufficiently filled the church with enough smoke to alert the fire department he discreetly directed the altar boy to take the censer outside and had him retrieve it the next time he needed to use it.

God Bless,
Bill

Aside from the times already mentioned, Benediction is another instance when incense is always used.

I love incense and I'm glad we use it at services in the Orthodox Church. I think it adds something to our worship in the same way music, vestments icons candles etc do.
That said, I can sympathise w/ folks who are allergic. Once in my distant Episcopalian days I saw a girl w/ asthma end up in the ER w/ a full blown attack on Xmas eve due to incense in church. Bear in mind that we worship in churches with lower ceilings then in times past, and that we clean our churches with various waxes and polishes and carpet shampoos so that while incense in itself might not hurt anyone, all these fumes together might.
Isn't incense symbolic? If there are a number of parishoners who have allergies try cutting down the amount and try different types.

The ability to open a window is helpful.

But I also think that the conditioning factor comes into play as well.

Latin rite masses tend, in general, to have many more bodies in them at one time. That is not always the case but very often. So the more bodies using oxygen the more difficult it might be to keep the air moving freely depending on the internal environment of the church.

Also in Orthodox churches there are often no pews and in that pew-free environment one is more able to move out of the way of a pocket of smoke, for example. Sometimes you don't have to move too far to get out of the line of the smoke till it clears a bit.

I think the trace odor may trigger a coughing fit in those who are disinclined to be well disposed to incense, so some of it may well be psychological.

All kinds of factors, I think, contribute to the general idea that the east can manage it, and the west can't or won't.

But the fact remains that it's simply not the tradition of the Latin rite to incense, and that is just fine.

Eli

Bill welcome to the Byantine Forum!

One thing that helps with the insence is if they take the time to shake the powder off of it. Then it produces a cleaner smoke.

Since I have Re-active Airway Syndrome, and have spent many days in the hospital from asthma and have to use O2, I have permission from my priest to use Menthol Coughdrops. Maybe David, being a nurse, can tell me why this helps. But, it somehow seems to keep the incense from getting to my head/breathing. From time to time I may occassionaly have four of them in my mouth, thankfully it is usually only one, but I am able to stay in the Church.

My dad sells air cleaners and I have often thought of asking if it would be ok to place one of these in the Church.

Very often I find that the breathing is best when there is very little visible smoke emitted from the burn. I don't think I have ever been in a Latin rite parish where the incense smoke is not visible. That reminds me. The slow lighting charcoal is also better for breathing in the long run!

Eli

Dear Pani Rose,

Thank You for the welcome, but I've been around here for awhile. I took a break from posting for a few months, had my computer crash, bought a new computer, found a new internet provider,forgot my password here(it was stored in Windows on my old computer), and re-registered as "rcguest". My old username was "Bill from Pgh". Were you able follow all that.

Blessings to You and Yours,
Bill