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Dear Administrator,

I don't understand what you wrote above in conjunction with what you've written on this before . . .

But I'm an idiot . . .

Alex

Alex,

I thought you were Ukrainian? :p

Seriously, though, there is nothing in my post above that I have not already posted numerous times. All I have done is to illustrate my point with a different example.

Admin

And like most ecumenical dialogue commissions, a lot gets said, no productive decisions are made, paper progress, photo-ops, institutional lethargy ... in effect, the status quo is preserved. And we all go home to either a Catholic or Orthodox street address ...

Will the 'cath' in 'byzcath.org' be removed to reflect this more ecumenical spirit of the times? Just wondering.

"Note: www.byzcath.org is an UNOFFICIAL site of the Byzantine Catholic Church in America. The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic Church."

This little disclaimer is interesting. While the Administrator is trying to make the forum segment an ecumenical-like commission, he still has to refer to the "Byzantine Catholic Church." Why? There seems to be a severe case of split personality. On the one hand, 'byzcath'; on the other, 'Byzantine Christian.' This is confusing, if not, misleading. There exists no Byzantine Christian Church. One is either Catholic or Orthodox. Is this idealism reflective of the imaginery Christian church?

Yes, the forums may be places of 'ecumenical dialogue,' but if ecumenism means being merely expressing opinions and political correctness, then why discuss anything? It already assumes that all is correct with the world and church with its egalitarian assumptions. What exactly IS the purpose of discussion? A 'byz-christian' church, which only exists in the minds of idealists, is as real as one's mind will allow it. It is not reality, but it is a neutral ground to hide behind; a mere castle-in-the-air ecclesiology.

"Equal respect" goes only as far as the silent Anaphora. Then one is accused of neo-Latinization and other pejoratives ...

Joe

Dear Cantor Joseph,

How's the new job coming?

Well, I'm certainly not part of the "inner circle" here, so I don't pretend to understand completely the issues you raise.

But if this forum is like an ecumenical commission, then - indeed - all participants, nomatter what their religious background, are to be treated with the same respect for their views by all others - and equally.

Is that set-up something that prevents change from occurring? I don't think so.

I think that real change cannot be imposed or "proven" to another on the basis that the other's religious views are somehow defective or what-not.

Real change occurs when a person who participates in the discussions here wants that change, voluntarily and on the basis of their own life of Grace and God's guidance.

"Latinization" as an example need not be a slight to Roman Catholics. As a matter of fact, it has nothing to do with Roman Catholics per se - it is a condition that affects Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, historically and in current times.

As for who is responsible for Latinization in our churches - there is more than one source, the greatest being, as I think many of us agree, our own selves and our own bishops. If the UGCC is anything to go on, Rome is trying to "deLatinize" us and many of our people are opposing that . . .

We all feel that we are offended here in ways that are not deliberate (there are deliberate offenses hurled here, but that is a different story).

I've offended people here when it was not my intention to so do.

I've also gone after people and committed the sin of expressing anger and contempt, all the while justifying it to myself on the basis of "O.K., you've just broken the rules and so . . ."

I did that with the Administrator before Christmas and, although I accepted my punishment and apologised, it took me a while to understand WHY what I said was wrong - and vicious. I hurt the Administrator's feelings in a way he did not deserve from me who, in the end, betrayed my supposed Christian ethics and took for granted a friendship that I had come to value very, very much, but that I've damaged, perhaps irreparably, with my sinful behaviour.

I don't know the answers to the issues you raise, Cantor, and perhaps there aren't any that are satisfactory, at least from my POV.

I do know that this Forum is a place where my own imperfections have been exposed to me, and to others in the course of conversation.

Thanks to this Forum, I know I'm not the saint I formerly supposed myself to be.

Alex

Joe,

www.byzcath.org is more than the Byzantine Forum. For the most part is concerned with the Byzantine Catholic Church of the Pittsburgh Metropolia and all the Eastern Catholic Churches in general and it is unofficial. The Admin specifically wants the forum to be a place of ecumenical dialogue for Chritians of the Byzantine tradition regardless of affiliation, unlike some other forums where the offical party line is expected to be towed and opposing viewpoints censored.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Joe et al,

There are a variety of Eastern forums on the web, several Orthodox, and two others (that I am aware of) which are Catholic.

My experience has been that the Orthodox sites tend to be parochial and, generally, hostile toward Eastern Catholics. (I admit to generalizing here and am open to correction, if anyone wants to point me to a site that contradicts my observation.)

One of the two EC sites has been around for a long time. Several of this forum's members post there, but none of us regularly from what I've observed. If you review its archives, it was once a thriving site on which much discussion occurred and a lot of information was exchanged. Today, my impression is that it is marked chiefly by hostile exchanges between and among the regular posters there - primarily Eastern Catholics; Orthodox posters don't generally fare well there.

The other site is a very small and slow forum on a primarily Latin board. The parent site's membership tends to the conservative and the EC forum is virtually devoid of members. Once a month or so, someone will wander into the site and post a query or two. It's so devoid of posters as to defy any categorization of it vis-a-vis attitude (altho the Latins on the parent site are clearly a bit virulent when it comes to "those schismatic Orthodox").

Anyway, my point is that, in my experience, the Byzantine Forum, whatever its (and our) faults, represents the one place I've found where all are usually welcome, respected, and heard - even when their point of view is at odds with those of others.

Do we always do it well? Is tolerance ever at a premium? No, we don't, and, yes, it sometimes is. Our treatment of Father Mike, the Ruthenian Episcopalian priest, who left this board a couple months ago, comes to mind as not being representative of our finest hour.

But, overall, we try. Look around you at your fellow posters. Among us are Catholics of almost every Eastern Church with a US presence. Our Latin brothers and sisters here span the theological spectrum from traditional to at least moderate. There are a multitude of Orthodox Church jurisdictions represented. An Orthodox priest moderates our prayer board, an Episcopalian graciously offers his prayers for our intentions during his Holy Week vigil, an Orthodox poster speaks for the interests of one of our Churches when it had no members among us, a Latin regularly crafts and posts beautifully prayerful thoughts.

I have no idea how many states are represented or how many countries (but both numbers are substantial); posters hearken from 4 continents (possibly 5, we still haven't nailed down the locale represented by "." .

We are Byzantine, we are unofficial, and we are very catholic (note the lowercase "c") - I think we can and should be extremely proud of the latter and very thankful to the Administrator for providing the opportunity and the place where that can happen.

A return to communion will never result from our discussions here; for better or worse, the achievement of that rests in the earthly hands of our hierarchs and, ultimately, in the heavenly hands of God. But, what does emerge here is an opportunity for God's peoples to know and understand one another, something that will be of incredible import when the day of recommunion occurs - whether it be in our lifetime or that of our grandchildren.

Many years,

Neil

Hello everyone

I'm new here and I just wanted to introduce myself and say how encouraged I am to read the intent of this forum as a place where we can come from various Christian backgrounds and in charity and love discuss our differences and our commonalities.

James

Dear James,

Welcome!

Everything these guys here know about charity, they learned from me!

God bless!

Alex

Alex

How could you say that ?

But then you know we love you - till you have a hissy fit :p

And then we wait till you calm down again and what passes for normailty returns :p

Anhelyna

Dear Anhelyna,

Yes, I think I should really stick to writing Akathists!

Fewer hissy fits that way.

Although one did produce what might be called a "Hussey" fit

Alex

AAAAAArgh - you are getting worse [ or at least your comments are ]

Anhelyna

Welcome James,

Some of my favorite people are named James!

The Forum will be looking forward to your contribution!

My friend, what exactly do YOU mean by "hussey?"

Joe

Dear Joe,

A play on "John Hus."

But both types have given me trouble before.

Alex

Thank you all for the warm welcome. I don't know if I can make much of a contribution but I will enjoy reading the various threads. Thanks again.

James