www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Turning West?

I would have to add that in many RC parishes it is easier to be "Protestant" than Catholic. This may well be true in Eastern parishes, though I have not encountered such. My mum-in-law is attending an "adult education" class in an RC parish in the northern US. It is run by a nun who is repeatedly telling the students, "Oh, don't worry about that", or "that changed way back with Vatican II". From what I understand from my more traditionally minded RC friends, these ruses are old shtick. At any rate, until she found this class, mum complained about "all the rules", but now she thinks "being Catholic is fun". She hasn't learned a jot more of the faith than she knew going in, but now all the things that challenged and provoked her are being erased and she can be "Catholic just the way she is...". So I guess, in all fairness, we ought not blame the Episcopaleans too much, for the same thing appears to be happening within the Catholic Church. BTW, so as not to provoke, I know full well there are scads of faithful RCs who love their Rite (and rite-ly so!), so I don' mean this as a bash. It is just something that has happened.
KH

Dear Tammy:

You heard it all wrong!

As a Lutheran, you were a "closet WESTERN Catholic!"

AmdG

I am a Byzantine Catholic.

That said, I have great love and respect for the Western side of the house - especially where the Faith is taught and practiced well. Where I live, that would be St. Patrick Church in Columbus, run by the Dominican Fathers. They preach the Truth, and celebrate with reverence. The lines for their confessionals are long.

What do I love? The clarity that comes with the silences, the starkness, and the (I'm NOT being pejorative) primitive ritual, celebrated with love and reverence.

I couldn't live on a steady diet of it - my heart is too Eastern for that, but it's a different form of nourishment, with flavors and textures I find refreshing now & then. (Not to mention I'm just Western enough to crave the occasional time spent before the exposed Blessed Sacrament.)

Funny, you'll also find me huddled in a pew at St. Pat's when I'm sick. I usually come down with some horrible respiratory tract infection once or twice a year. I'm a cantor. I can't go to my own church and not sing - and at times like those, I can't go to my own church without hurting myself. So I go pray (very very quietly) at St. Pat's, where I'm not responsible for the music.

Cheers,

Sharon

Dear Coalesco,

My sentiments exactly!

Alex

Don't contaminate this board by speaking of that deranged institution and its poor minions!

WAR EAGLE!!!

Logos Teen

I do love the apostolic zeal and charitable organizations found in the West. This is not to say that the East hasn't had it, or isn't trying to recover it after the persecutions of the past (and present), but it is certainly more explicit in the West. We Easterners are often very tempted toward the interior life to the exclusion of outward evangelicalism. It's a matter of complementarity.

Correlative to this, the spirituality of work, as found in St. Francis de Sales, JPII's Laborem Exercens, and the like is an excellent incarnational spirituality for the laity. Again, it's a complementarity thing. I think this is there in the Eastern "unceasing prayer" spirituality, the West jsut makes it more explicit.

Justin

It seems it's pretty difficult for most Easterners here to say what draws them toward Western Christianity. Oh well; some have tried.

Traditional Latin Catholicism is absolutely wonderful. I have faith that the innovations will fade away, and traditional Latin Christianity will re-emerge. In fact, it already is headed in that direction. The seminaries of TradLats are full: FSSP, SSPX, Christ the King, etc. Latin Christianity has no superior (maybe equals, but no superior!).

Not all of Latin Christianity has been butchered and Protestantized. There are many strongholds of tradition, even in the Novus Ordo Church.

Logos Teen

I also really appreciate the cult of the Blessed Sacrament. As one Antiochian Orthodox priest once told me: "If there is one thing the East could learn from the West, it is the cult of the Eucharist outside of the Liturgy". Now I know the objections that it is not in keeping with the spirit of Byzantine liturgical thought, but I do agree with Bp. Kallistos who says in 'The Orthodox Church' that there is nothing contrary to the Orthodox faith in the practice either and in fact lauds it. I will always cherish time spent with my Eucharistic Lord.

Justin

If you are so gung-ho Latin Catholic in spirit, why haven't you converted and made yourself so in fact? I can talk, I converted to Catholicism at the age of 14 against my family's wishes. I lived in a small southern town with few Catholics, I walked to instructions across town weekly for a year and usually had to walk to Sunday Mass as well. I can't understand what you are waiting for. Maybe then I can respect your rants in favor of what you call "traditional" Catholicism. And that includes wishing a schismatic group (Society of St. Pius X) well in their desire to encourage schism among Eastern Cathoilcs (the Society of St. Josaphat)and their prostelyzation of Orthodox....which you did in another post. Don

Dear Friends,

I've never admitted this before, but there is one Latin practice that literally "possesses" me when I have the opportunity to perform it.

And this is simply the way the Latins hold their hands in prayer, with the fingers extended outwards and touching with the thumbs crossed over one another.

I don't know what it is about that, but when I attend Latin Masses (as I did when the papal entourage visited the Martyrs' Shrine in Midland during WYD), I see all the saints in heaven!

I was following the papal people who held their hands that way and my hands felt as if they were glued together. I was overcome by a tremendous piety that was simply spiritually delicious, if I may say that.

It helped me focus interiorly and I was almost paralyzed - couldn't move.

Archbishop Leonardo Sandri, the undersecretary of state for the Vatican, saw me that way and came up to me as he was passing in procession to bless me.

I bowed to him to kiss his hand and he looked surprised - he said, "Now you, why didn't you become a priest? You would have made a good one!"

I thought that was a good one too . . .

Alex

It is rare that I will defend Protestantism, but I think you have been somewhat unfair. People are often drawn to Evangelical churches because the people are warm and friendly, the preaching is clear and Christ-oriented and the Bible is stressed. Of course it is a movement that carries the seeds of secularism, and does not possess the wholistic depth of Catholicism, but to an unconverted Catholic- and the Church is full of them- the things I cite can be a heady mix, especially if the local Catholic priest displays no passion for Christ nor zeal for souls.
As I have said on other threads, I have no hostility to the West, only sorrow that it has largely abandoned its traditions, though I believe that tide may be turning. Gregorian chant, the rosary, the Western religious orders and their varied spiritualities, and a hundred other things are the jewels of the West.

Dear Daniel,

Yes, the rosary is something that really attracts me and, when done with proper meditations, is just such a super prayer!

And I've known Protestants who use the rosary - as did John Wesley. There is a Protestant tradition of veneration for the Mother of God - and of prayer beads - as can be seen in articles produced for the Ecumenical Society of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

And many Protestants put us to shame with their zeal.

King Charles I of England once visited the semi-monastic community of Nicholas Ferrar at Little Gidding.

He saw how they prayed the Psalms throughout the night etc.

He then returned home to his RC Queen Henrietta Maria and told her the Ferrar family could put to shame some of the strictest RC religious Orders.

Alex

I completely agree with everything you write Don. Teen's pontificating about a Church he hasn't even joined yet has gotten very tiresome. Teen, you sometimes come across as a know it all. The last couple of posts extolling the superiority of the Latin rite to the extent of wishing SSPX good luck in sheep stealing is going a bit far.

In Christ,
Anthony

Dear Sharon and All,

The positive statements about the West and our Liturgy and our practices in some of the postings in this thread are so up lifting to read. I am grateful to learn that there are members of other Churches in our communion who share our love and respect for the Mass and para liturgical practices.

Sharon has caught in her posting what brings me back to our Liturgy when she says this:

"What do I love? The clarity that comes with the silences, the starkness, and the (I'm NOT being pejorative) primitive ritual, celebrated with love and reverence"

That, without reservation is one of the most apt descriptions of the beauty and solemnity of the Liturgy. It is hard to miss Jesus in the simple and primitive ritual that renews His sacrifice among us.

Thank you Sharon and thank you to the other posters who had positive things to say in this regard.

I don't mean to slight the other posters but my time is limited this evening.

Steve

Dear Friends,

If I may and say so respectfully, I think that Teen Logo is someone who will one day be a very committed member of the Catholic Church.

Young people tend to grope and search and try different things.

But I think Teen Logo is moving forward and, with proper guidance, will come home to where God wants him to be.

Alex