www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Turning West?

I've read the stories of many people who have been attracted to the "light of the east" on this board, and who have turned eastward to become Byzantine Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. I myself have been attracted to the Christian East for many years.

But, alas, I am a Westerner. With apologies to the Georgia Bulldog fans, "I'm Latin born and Latin bred, and when I die I'll be Latin dead!" I think that part of my mission, as an RC catechist, is to help my own Western Christians learn to love and appreciate the East without denying our Western heritage.

Something Alex said on another thread intrigued me, and so I pose this question: What do my Eastern brothers and sisters value about Western Christianity, if anything? What draws them to turn their eyes to the West, so to speak? Are there any Eastern Christians (Byzantine or Orthodox) who have been so drawn to the West as to become Latin Catholics?

For that matter, I have frequently read posts from former Byzantine Catholics who have gone further east, so to speak, to become Orthodox. (I know I'm going to hear from those who say they're "Orthodox in communion with Rome" - I'm specifically referring to those who are "more Orthodox" - Morthodox?) But are there any formerly Orthodox members who have been drawn to become Byzantine Catholic?

I realize that the great hostility against the Catholic Church in some quarters of Orthodoxy stems from the accusation of proselytism. Is it because former Byzantine Catholics are leaving the ROC to return to the Roman Communion, or is it that Orthodox believers are actually converting from Orthodoxy to Catholicism (Latin or Byzantine)?

I know I've probably opened a huge can of worms here, but I've yet to see this addressed on this board.

Thanks!

Dave
"Mere Catholic"

Certainly there are Orthodox who have become Catholic-Orthodox, so to speak. But such people usually strive to avoid polemics. If you would like someone who does not strive to avoid such polemics, try Jim Likoudis (of Montour Falls, NY, I believe - and if I can find it I'll post his web site) he's written a couple of books on relations between the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodoxy. Incognitus

Dear Dave,

What was it I said on another thread? I'm that intriguing, am I?

I don't know if I represent a normal case in this regard (no one here really has to comment on that ), but, although I never changed jurisdictions, I did change "spheres" within my jurisdiction.

The UGCC is, in some respects, like the Anglican church with "High" and "Low" in terms of Byzantine and Latin.

In university, I went to the Eastern spirituality in a very big way from what was a relatively Latinized context prior to this.

I stopped saying the rosary, wearing the scapular etc. I was "liberated by the East" or so I thought.

I then began to readopt my former devotions, especially when I could relate them to the devotions of Orthodox saints (e.g. Rosary - St Seraphim of Sarov, Stations of the Cross - St Tikhon of Zadonsk etc.).

For me, the West's devotion to the Humanity of Christ always gripped my spiritual imagination, I suppose I'm a Renaissance man after all .

Alex

Wyatt Earp to Doc Holliday ; " I just want to live a normal life Doc ".

Doc Holliday to Wyatt ; " There is no normal life Wyatt, just life ".

Love the movie and the quote makes sense.


james

Dear Jakub,

Niech bedzie pochwalony Jezus Christus!

Excellent quote - right on!

"Normal life" can also be boring.

If you don't believe me, have a look at the thread on Byzantine-Macedonians here . . .

Alex

I was raised Lutheran, which someone once told me is "just a closet Catholic". Not quite, but there are a lot of similarities between the Lutheran service and the Catholic Novus Ordo. I converted to Eastern Catholicism 9 years ago, but have recently discovered the beauty of the Rosary and other Latin rite spiritualities. My husband is convinced that if he dies before me, I will change rites to RC! I don't know about that, but I am drawn to some of the RC practices.

Dear Tammy,

I sometimes suspect that Orthodox love certain RC practices like the Rosary which is why they adopt them and then come up with wonderful stories about how the Orthodox East received, for example, the revelation of the Rosary first, ahead of the RC's!

The Lutheran High Church people, as in Sweden and Finland, also say the Rosary, as you know.

Martin Luther himself kept an image of Our Lady in his room all his life and was noted for keeping his rosary in his hands while preaching.

The Ecumenical Society of the Blessed Virgin Mary has Lutherans who are very big on devotion to Our Lady.

And I think the UGCC is the best of all worlds.

If our people like a Latin devotion, they just go ahead and adopt it.

When the Easterners ask us, in indignation, what we are doing with that monstrance etc., then we just sigh and look away as we mutter under our breath "yes, we were forcibly Latinized, what could we do?"

Alex

Luther was actually quite devoted to Mary. He also believed in her ever-virginity and immaculate conception (But don't tell the modern-day Lutherans. They'd all have heart attacks or join Mormonism or something.)

I would not recommend Likoudis.. He is too polemical and seems like a mirror image of some Orthodox converts with issues with their former Church.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Latin Christianity has always fascinated me. I have deep respect for Latin Church music and composers such as Palestrina, Victoria, Lassus, and all those who followed them. The Roman catholic Church has inspired the great composers to make the most beautiful music, the great artists (like Micahel Angel) to do the best sculptures and arts and the architects to build the most impressing churches for the worship of the triune God.

I think that those who are Eastern and repudiate or hate Western Christianity do so because they don't know about the glorious past of the Roman Church. If you judge Catholicism for what you see nowadays, you are not seeing what true Roman Catholicism is. That cannot be really the Roman Catholic Church. That is why some people find hard to understand.

I think both Orthodox and traditional Latin catholics have a lot in common.

Dear Dave,
I am an Orthodox. I find no attraction towards catholicism no matter how many times I have gone to the services or nor how much I have tried to really understand it. I try very much to put myself in the Latin shoe but I don't find it appealing. However, I do notice bits & pieces of Orthodox remanents in catholicism. IMHO, catholicism does not contain the fullness of Orthodoxy that spiritually feeds my hunger and quenches my thirst. Lately within my Arab Christian community, I have been hearing about more Latins & Melkites becoming Protestant (i.e. Nazarene, Pentecostal, etc). These people are being attracted way far west than they will ever come back east. It certainly is a strange phenomena. Don't you think?! I swear I am not making this up. Ask the Melkite pastor in Chicago. He is really have a hard time with those going "west". There are some Orthodox who also have gone to far "west" but they are small compared to former Melkites and Latins.

AHhhh--Protestantism can just be soooo comfortable for people.

I think that it is a temptation not only for westerners but also for easterners who live in Protestant countries like the US.

They see the license, the automatic "I-am-saved" stuff, etc. Not that there aren't positive allurements--eveangelical "spirit" being one of them, perhaps. But I think a lot of the attraction has to do with the fact that Protestant churches, to a man, have sold the farm on the moral issues of our day.

LatinTrad

Dear Latin Trad,

I think perhaps, the diminishing 'Roman Catholic culture' that was so predominant and so enviable,in the days of my childhood, allows for Catholics to feel more 'at home' in the Protestant churches than they would have then. Also, the trends of architecture, liturgy, and other aspects that traditionally defined Roman Catholicism as a distinct culture have in many instances, become somewhat 'Protestant'.

I hate to say this, but I also think that the soaring rate of divorce in modern society, and the allowance (in the Protestant churches) for the use of birth control must appeal to some Roman Catholics too.

Just some thoughts...
Alice

Very true, Alice, very true. From the years I spent in the Episcopal Church, I knew of many former Catholics who became Episcopalians because they were divorced and remarried. The Episcopal Church was (and is) often considered "Catholic Lite: All of the Gilt with none of the Guilt".

Sadly, in my Catholic Adult Ed class, a woman recently remarked that she thought it was wonderful that so many former Catholics, who were divorced and remarried, had found a home in the Episcopal Church. (With Henry VIII as the putative founder of Anglicanism, it isn't much of a surprise). Still, the fact that many "former Catholics" wind up in Protestant churches stems from the fact that it is often "easier" to be a Protestant than a Catholic - less rules to follow, more "freedom of conscience", etc. Then again, I seem to remember something our Lord said about the difference between the "broad" and "narrow" way...

Dave