www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Turning West?

A very good friend of mine (who converted to the OCA) calls people of this sort "Morthodox" , a contraction of "more" + "orthodox".

Dave

I'll have to remember that one!

The comment is offensive, rude, and uncalled-for

Neil

I think that Teen himself made an excellent response to it.

I have always thought it better to ignore comments like that if at all possible.

The current issue of Road to Emmaus, an Orthodox periodical, has a feature article on Celtic Brittany, with photos of Gothic cathedrals, statues and other western things. So the admiration is not just one-sided.
The same issue has an article about Christian-Muslim dialogue. Refreshing, when ROCOR won't even dialogue with other Christians. It is published by Christ the Saviour Brotherhood in Indianapolis and the editorial office is in Moscow, but I don't know any more about the people who publish it.

Anhelyna,

I agree, but I felt that Teen should know that there were others here who felt the comments were inappropriate

Many years,

Neil

Daniel, One of my priest-friends (a former Jesuit) is a ROCOR priestmonk and always refers to his jurisdiction as "The Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Orthodoxy" A.K.A. "The Orthodox Church of Latter Day Pharisses" (all HIS words---not mine!). In reality the ROCOR has (as Bishop Kallistos Ware has said so well) preserved the Russian Orthodox faith and traditions lovingly over all these years. Now we hope and pray that they will reunite with their Mother-Church and have more of an opportunity to SHARE that faith and those traditions with the world around them. Sort of reminds me of something that was said about Blessed John XXIII and his attitude about the Council he was preparing for, 'Stop the world Lord, we want to get on!'

In Him Who calls us,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory

Bless, Father Archimandrite!

And one other thing Bl. John XXIII said was in response to press articles criticizing him for going out too much during the day.

"All right!" said the Pontiff. "From now on, I'll only go out at night . . ."

Alex

Dear Fr Archimandrite, Yes, I too respect the ROCOR folks for preserving so much of the Russian religious heritage and for the purity of their worship. That said, when I read on their website that St Francis was of the spirit of the Antichrist and was demonically possessed or that Fatima was Satanic or that Catholic baptism is invalid or that grace and redemption do not exist outside of Orthodoxy [narrowly defined] I just shake my head at such delusion. Catholicism is so much more generous in spirit, that is, "catholic". For example, I, a Catholic, recognize ROCOR as my brothers bearing many gifts for the wider Church, while they do not consider me a Christian nor the existence of a wider Church.

Dear Daniel, Don't feel bad about not being considered a Christian by the ROCOR...I was once asked to leave a priest-friend's funeral in a Synod church at the "All Catecumens Depart"! :rolleyes: Hopefully, their attitude (especially that of some of their convert priests, often the worse offenders) will change if they unite with their Mother-Church, the Moscow Patriarchate. That being said, I would not want you or anyone to confuse Orthodoxy with the very narrow attitude of one jurisdiction that is outside of the communion of the Canonical Orthodox Church.

In His Holy Name,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory

Are there any Byzantine Catholics here who were originally Eastern Orthodox (outside of communion with Rome)? If so, what led you to become BC?

In this forum, I've read posts from some people who have close friends/relatives who are Eastern Orthodox. How do you describe your decision to remain in communion with Rome as a Byzantine Catholic?

Dave

Dear Fr Gregory, Can you explain what that- the Canonical Orthodox Church- is? I am not being a smart aleck, this is a confusing thing for me and I have never heard a cogent explanation that did not lead to all sorts of "yeah buts" in my mind. Often when questioned too closely the Orthodox will snub me as a hopelessly unmystical Westerner. Is it really wrong to seek a clear explanation, one that holds up under questioning?

Dear Daniel, +May the LORD bless you! You have every right to ask what the meaning of "canonical Church" is...in fact it's a VERY good question, one which, unfortunately not all students of Orthodox theology agree on. So I will answer this question simply by saying that most Orthodox would agree that any Church that is in communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate (1st among equals in the East) is recognized as either autocephalic or autonomous and therefore 'canonical' in the Orthodox sense. There are however times when that communion is temporarily broken, but still the Church in question is a canonical Church. If you wish to read more and get a really GOOD anwer to your question, you could read this:

http://www.jacwell.org/Fall_Winter99/Fr_Schmemann_The_canonical_problem.htm

I hope this helps? If not don't be afraid to ask for further help...if I can't give it (which may indeed be the case), I will try and at least point you in the right direction.

In Him Who calls us,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory

Father Gregory, sir, It took me a long time to respond to this because whenever I ask these questions I get accused of being offensive to the Orthodox, which I assure you is not my intent.
However your answer only raises questions. For one, the claims of Rome are based on very arguably valid Scriptural and Patristic evidence. What Scriptural and Patristic arguments exist for the Ecumenical Patriarch being the center of unity? Or is this merely a political and historical accident?
Secondly, you state that there are those jurisdictions that are not in communion with the EP but which are somehow still canonical. I don't understand then what makes one canonical; you seem to contradict your standards of canonicity.
Thank you in advance for not taking offense at these questions; you seem an eminently reasonable and balanced man and I have admired the spirit of your posts. I am sincerely trying to understand these things and I do not find Orthodox explanations cogent or satisfying so far.
Please do not misunderstand this as hostility; in spite of the impression of some fellow posters I have a great admiration for and appreciation of the Orthodox churches. Indeed I yearn for reunion so that I may someday receive the Eucharist before some of the awesome iconostases I have seen in my visits to Orthodox churches. Truly any communion which produces such sublime sacred art is in the Grace of God!

Glory to Jesus Christ!

The most pro-Catholic Orthodox priest I have ever met was a ROCOR archimandrite whose name I will not mention. He is in a sense my spiritual "grandfather" since he is the first real monk I have ever met (it should be pointed out that I met him in a Latin traditionalist retreat center I used to live in when he came for a visit). In his cell, there is a Latin statue of the Virgin Mary, along with another image of the Virgin of Guadalupe, and an icon of St. Teresa of Avila. Everyone in the ROCOR knows about his tendencies, but no one can touch him since he has been a monk for so long. (He has told me that he was a monk on Mt. Athos and even met Thomas Merton). In him, I perceive that there is a simplicity about his faith that excludes all zealotry or fanaticism. If something is holy, it is holy...period!
Sometimes I feel that, among Eastern Christians, both Catholics and Orthodox, there is too much appeal to style, to what is spiritually and theologically "chique".