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Greetings to all in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ! Although I have been a frequent visitor to this site, this is the first time I have mustered the courage to post a message. Please be patient if I seem to ramble...

I seek your advice and guidance concerning a possible change from the Latin to the Byzantine rite (I believe that this is the correct terminology; please correct me if I am mistaken). Let me give you a little of my background.

I was baptized as in infant in the Roman Catholic Church, but my mother left the Church soon afterwards. She joined a Pentecostal church and became virulently anti-Catholic. Eventually, she "mellowed" and even enrolled me in parochial school for a few years. (This was my first real experience of the Catholic faith). At age 10, I decided to accept the Catholic faith, and was confirmed along with the rest of my class. My mother had some misgivings, but she accepted my decision.

A few years later, while as a student in high school, I began to consider a vocation to the priesthood. This was too much for my mother and for the rest of my family (all of whom had left the Church for Pentecostalism), and I endured strong opposition from my family over my Catholic faith. As a result of this conflict, I eventually became an Episcopalian. This satisfied the Protestant prejudice of my family, while at the same time it allowed me to hold on to much of my Catholic faith (belief in the sacraments, the Real Presence, etc.). It was while I was in the Episcopal Church that I began to learn about Eastern Christianity, and I was strongly drawn to it from the start. I was fortunate to spend a summer in Pennsylvania one year where I attended a Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church every Sunday, and for the first time (but not the last) I seriously considered converting to Orthodoxy.

I returned from that summer in PA with a greater appreciation for the Orthodox faith. (In fact, I considered myself more "Anglo-Orthodox" than "Anglo-Catholic"!). But I had grown comfortable within Anglicanism, at least until recent events within the Episcopal Church convinced me that the apostolic faith was being abandoned.

Several years ago, I began discussing the possibility of "swimming the Bosphorus" with my best friend, an Episcopal priest. I had given this more thought because my wife's sister had converted to Orthodoxy upon her marriage to a Greek man. I read two books by Bishop Kallistos (Ware) as well as anything else I could find on Orthodoxy. I was well on the road to Byzantium when at the last minute I decided against it: I had grown disillusioned over the political struggle between the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Russian Patriarch over the Estonian Orthodox Church. This sad conflict, which threatened centuries of Orthodox unity, revealed to me the need for a truly unified Church. Thus, I reconsidered the position of the Catholic Church and decided to return "home to Rome". Ironically, though, I had strongly encouraged my best friend to leave the Episcopal ministry and convert to Orthodoxy; not long afterwards, another Episcopal priest in town converted, and together they have established a growing OCA mission!

I am still strongly drawn to the East. My friend as well as my sister-in-law and her husband are godparents to my son (actually, they were only "witnesses" according to canon law, but my son will always know them as his Orthodox godparents!). I am painfully aware of the separation between East and West. But I find myself theologically more at home with the East. For the record, I am NOT an advocate of the Latin mass - Tridentine or otherwise - nor am I critical of the New Order of the Mass. I do think that the Mass as it is often celebrated lacks reverence and dignitas (oops- did I just slip into Latin? Must be my Pentecostal, "speaking-in-tongues" background showing!) I am NOT running from the perceived problems within the Latin rite. But my question is this: would I "fit in" in the Byzantine Church? Since I am not of any Eastern descent, nor am I married to an Easterner, I am concerned. Has anyone else out there changed rites because you were drawn/led to it?

Secondly, we do not have a Byzantine parish or mission anywhere near here. We were fortunate to have a Byzantine priest visit and celebrate the Divine Liturgy at our Cathedral last Fall (what a joy!). There was a significant number of people in attendance, and I hope that a mission will be established one day. In the meantime, what can I do to discern if this is where the Lord is leading me, and how do I get there from here?

Your thoughts, and your prayers, will be greatly appreciated!

Peace in Christ,
Dave

Dave: Congratulations to you on your first post. I wish I was as articulate. As a monastic and a member of a Roman Catholic House of Prayer with very deep connections to the Ruthenian Catholic Archeparchy of Pittsburgh my first thought is to tell you how very wonderful it is that you want to be so pleasing to the Lord. You have been and still are searching for Him. But as you know, if you are searching for Him, He is already found: within you.
Pray that the Holy Spirit will lead you to that Church which will make you a most pleasing offering to the Father. This seems to be the direction in which you are heading.
Ask the Lord to guide you. Don't be in a great rush. He may make it very clear to you that He wants you to stay right where you are for now. Or, He may make it perfectly clear that He wants you somewhere else. Seek Him in prayer and fasting. Don't be in a fret. The Ruthenian Catholic Church is the Church of Jesus Christ, with all it's splendor, richness, apostolic history and literature and, yes, warts. So is the Church to which you currently belong. We are many Churches gathered together under the omophorion of the Patriarch of the West. May the Lord Jesus continue to guide you and to bless you on your journey. The humble monk, Silouan

Dear Brother in Christ,

I think I could have written half of what you wrote. What similar journeys we�ve had, you and I.

I myself Crossed the Tiber years ago, when a young and impressionable teenager. It's a decision that has influenced me nearly every day of my life since then. Since that day nearly 20 years ago (has it been that long?), I have often questioned the whole East vs. West diatribe. I went through a long period of introspection a few years after converting to Catholicism, weighing Orthodoxy vs. Catholicism, and, for a time, came squarely in the Eastern camp. I attended a small Orthodox parish for a year or so, but found, much to my dismay, that Orthodoxy was fractured and spintered, with accusations of heterodoxy passing between both the Left and the Right in the Orthodox camps. The feuds that the Orthodox have among themselves (who is Orthodox, who is Heterodox, who has jurisdictional authority, who has administrative authority, who Really teaches the Orthodox Faith, what canons are applicable, etc, etc, ad nauseam) left me with a bad taste in my mouth that persists to today. I found the Orthodox faith to be beautiful, but found the �ethnic� schtick to be so prevalent so as to preclude one from feeling truly a part of �things�. My trans-Bosphorus pass expired, and I headed back to Rome. However, the spirituality of the Fathers stuck like flypaper, and I applied for a Change of Rite, which was summarily granted.

In retrospect, I have very mixed feelings about having done it. On one hand, I find the spirituality of the Roman church to be somewhat superficial, as far as worship goes. What�s the saying? The worship of the people is the faith of the people�? The Novus Ordo and the practice of the Faith in Roman rite parishes I�ve attended seems to be very�how can I say it and still sound charitable?�low church. I feel as if the Faith that I embraced years ago was ephemeral. EWTN�s liturgy sure isn�t my local parish�s. On the other hand, I feel both Western and Eastern � patristic in outlook, western in spirit. That is to say, I enjoy all the pomp and circumstance of the Greek liturgy, but I feel it lacking in emotion. The Saints of the Western Church have strong appeal to me, particularly those of MY Anglo-Saxon ethnic tradition.

In the past few years, I�ve reached what appears to be a compromise solution - these days, I attend a high church Anglican parish. I just reached the point where I simply couldn�t deal with how low church the Roman rite is, at least where I live. There was NO sense of transcendence at the Roman parish I attended � liturgy was the lowest common denominator. It was this overwhelming sense of not experiencing God in liturgy that drove me to Anglicanism. I�m not trying to say that my decision has been easy, but if you NEED liturgy to experience God, it doesn�t seem to me that the Roman rite offers much in terms of Otherworldliness.

For me, the ideal worship would be a high church Roman rite parish. It�d be nice for once to go into a parish and find a hymnal instead of the paperback �music issue� with bad 70�s music. Shudder.

From the trenches, just be sure that if you change Rites that your heart is in it. There�s NO going back. Take time, reflect, and see where your heart is.

But remember that our salvation is worked out in very ordinary terms � in our families, in our local parishes, and most of all, in our hearts. Find a community that teaches the Faith where you can get a sense of transcendence and a sense of communal love � where you are challenged to go out and live the Faith. I�ve found it, but it was a long time coming, and not without a great deal of sacrifice and introspection on my part.

That�s my $.02

Maximos
(aka the Confessor � look that one up!)

Dave --

Give great consideration to making your special contribution to the Latin Church the education of your fellow Latin Catholics of the eastern Church.

I think in your present situation, you can only practice some of the best virtues of Eastern Catholicism from within the Latin Church. The essential difference between Catholicism and Protestantism is our emphasis on the communal vs. the individualism of Protestantism. That is why the Eucharist and visible Church unity is so important to us. With no community of Byzantine Catholics in your area, it would be difficult to fully realize the sense of community our faith calls us to, not to mention building the "domestic church" of the Christian family with your wife.

But Roman Catholics can still take the opportunity of educating and exploring the virtues of Eastern Christianity and sharing them with others. It is a vocation that is greatly needed in the Church today.

Dave,

I agree with Kurt. The first consideration you have is geographical. But as you have discovered, the internet certainly opens doors. This will help you explore and learn more about our Eastern brothers.

The internet is also equally helpful in discovering the splendor of your own Latin Tradition. This is certainly something that I experienced and the process of discovery has not ceased.

As Church goers, we tend to look to the mass for a sensoral experience that would affect us spiritually. We become critical of the music, the homily, the church structure, the priest's accent, etc. I've gone through this. As my faith, spirituality, and knowledge of my Church continued to grow; I realized that the Church experience goes two ways. My participation is just as important as what comes from outside. We are in church collectively for worship and thanksgiving, this is what comes from our hearts. What we recieve is the word of God and the body of God the Son. When we receive communion it is the same Body that our Eastern Catholic brothers receive. It is a perfect expression of unity with them.

Don't look for compromise solutions. There is nothing low church about receiving the Body of Christ in a church that is part of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Dear in Christ, Dave and Maximos,

Maximos, your story parallels mine in so many ways. One of the few differences is I became and still am Orthodox. Your criticisms of both Orthodoxy in practice and of the Novus Ordo are right on the money. While I can't approve of leaving the Catholic church for a local high-Anglican church (for historical/ecclesiological/problems-with-orders reasons), some of my good friends are sincere Anglo-Catholics both in the traditionalist faction of the Episcopal Church and in a Continuing Church body, the Anglican Province of Christ the King. Also, an Anglo-Catholic church can be a welcome solace from the Novus Ordo, both for fellowship and to (re)learn how traditional ceremonial is done in the Roman Rite.

For a well-written critique of the Novus Ordo and its 'low church', even antiliturgical character, read any book by Thomas Day. For a critique of how the Novus Ordo was devised, read 'Pope Paul's New Mass' by Michael Davies.

Dave, the Internet indeed opens doors. Through it you can make new Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox friends and get some great books, not to mention find places to order icons, lamps, etc. through the 'Net. You can 'bring the East' to where you are in the Catholic church. Perhaps you are one of those people whose vocation is to give the Catholic traditionalists a shot of adrenalin with an Orthodox presence in their midst, by being an Eastern or Easternophile Catholic.

Greetings in Christ, Dave.
I certainly have the gravest amount of respect for the path that you are undertaking. I myself was baptized in a 'high church' Episcopal Church. I converted on my own in high school to the RC Church. I was searching for a greater depth of liturgy and tradition, and was most shocked to find that 'traditionaly speaking', that RC Church was more striped down in its simplicity then my old Episcopal Church.
I have continued to quest for liturgical depths, which, of course, led me to the Orthodox. We are very blessed to have an old calanderian Russian Orthodox parish in our community. But for most of the reasons stated by others in this discussion board, converting was simply not an option for me. I guess it all boils down to the primacey of Peter. I could be well mistaken, but in my dialoges with both The Russian Orthodox priest an deacon, as well as the readings that I've undertaken, rarely do I come accross mentions of Peter, and his primacey in the first 1000 years of both churches history. This is an issue that many Orthodox wish to skirt, for it truely shakes to the core their present ecclesial structure. Not withstanding, I've stayed within the fold of Peter.
I am, however, like you, very attracted to the rich depths that the Eastern Fathers hold, regarding the inner life, and emphasis on monastism, as I myself am beginning a journey, which may indeed lead to consecrated life. Following our Holy Father's teachings on ecumenism, and the concept of 'sister church', I am searching for ways to enrich my own daily spiritual development, and understanding of God in my life, and in the lives of those around me, with the help of 'both lungs' of the same church. Burning insence, proper use of Icons, etc.. as well a s reading by Eastern Fathers (St. Theophon the Recluse) have all deeply enriched my
Christian life. This almost, to me, seems to be -the- orthodox way of worship, both East and West enriching each other. Christ is risen, the Lord is Risen indeed!!!!!!!
rite 1

All this talk about jumping ships makes me wonder about something. I have read so often that Byzantine Catholics are Orthodox in union with Rome, etc. I wonder what the attitude is when/if a ByzCath converts to straight Orthodoxy? Does the Catholic church then regard that person as lost or outside of salvation because they have renounced their union with Rome? Just curious, because so far I don't recall seeing that particular situation described by anyone on the forum!
However, it must happen.

From a Catholic standpoint, we are always sorry that someone has left the full union of the Catholic Church. One might fairly assume that while formally a Catholic, the person in question was not experiencing the fullness of Catholicity and may well spiritually benefit from association with Orthodox.

Nevertheless, to knowingly reject the unity of the Church for purely human reasons (i.e. some social benefit or release from some legitimate canonical regulation) would be a sin (of what degree I will leave for others to guess). Such situations are most likely a minority of disaffiliations with the Catholic Church.

Before I get started, let me say that this is my first post. Now that that's out of the way, I might be able to answer Dave's question. As far as question #2 goes, I couldn't answer any better than Silouan. I myself am a Latin Rite interested in changing over to the Byzantine Rite. I will keep his advice in mind.

As to the first question, I believe that should a Byzantine mission get started in your area, you should have no problem fitting in. Even if you were in an area with a Byzantine Rite parish, you wouldn't feel like an "oddball" for long. Last Christmas, I attended Divine Liturgy at St. Nicholas in Detroit. I did feel kind of odd at first, despite being in a family of Romanian Orthodox background. By the end of the Liturgy, I felt right at home. The parishoners were very welcoming, and treated me like family.

Christ is in our midst!
Mike

Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory Forever!

I am sincerely grateful for all of the responses I have received. I apologize if I have not responded to any personal e-mails. (I've learned that procrastination results in missed opporunities!).

I am most pleased to report that a new Byzantine mission has recently been established in the Knoxville area (where I live). The first Divine Liturgy was held on the Feast of the Dormition; unfortunately, I was unable to attend but I look forward to the next Divine Liturgy on September 19th. It appears that a Byzantine presence in east Tennessee is alive and well!

In the meantime, I have continued to explore the Eastern rites over the Internet, and I just completed reading the "Light for Life" books. (BTW, does anyone know when the 3rd volume is due to come out?). I also read "Facing East" by Frederica Matthews-Green, and I have continued to discuss my thoughts with my Orthodox friend.

Right now, I believe I am being led to stay where I am and bear witness to Christ in my current parish, which is a strong and rapidly growing faith community. I have been very active as a sponsor and teacher in the RCIA program, and I continue to spread the word on the perspective of the Eastern churches to those who are under instruction. But I am still drawn to the Byzantine rite, and I hope to participate in the life of that community as much as possible. I know that there is no such thing as a "bi-ritual" layman, but I hope I will feel at home in both parishes.

Ultimately, since I hope to always remain open to the leading of the Holy Spirit, I'm not sure where my journey will end. But I pray EARNESTLY for the healing of the schism, as it is a personal matter for me and my family. Please continue to keep me in your prayers. I intend to hang out on these boards, drinking deeply from the wisdom that is so often offered here, and responding from time to time as best as my poor ability will permit.

Pax,
Dave