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Mar 25th, 2025
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Joined: Nov 2002
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With all due respect, how do you know that the Virgin is pained by the refusal to accept the Immaculate Conception? I am not commenting on the actual dogma...
Anton
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Thank you for the question. At Fatima, Portugal in 1917, the Theotokos requested reparation for the 5 insults to Her that grieve Her greatly, one of the five is the denial of the Immaculate Conception.
G-d Bless.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Orthodox Catholic Toddler Member
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I am curious, what were the other insults?
M
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Bless you for the question!
The 5 insults spoken of at Fatima are
1. Attacks upon Her Immaculate Conception
2. Attacks upon Her Perpetual Virginity
3.Attacks upon Her Divine Maternity and Motherhood of all mankind
4. Those who implant indifference to Her in the hearts of children
5. Insults to Her directly in Her Sacred Images
Please do a google search of "Virgin Mary 5 First Saturdays"
G-d bless you in your continued journey of faith on this Feast day of the Chinese Martyrs! The angels rejoice!
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Joined: Jul 2002
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Originally posted by mardukm:
I do, however, maintain, that on a Catholic website, we should respect the Catholic understanding, and that Athanasius' wording unclarified could be (?mis?)construed as an exhortation to be disobedient to one's patriarch, which is unacceptable to all of us.
Blessings,
Marduk Dear Marduk, I've been corrected directly by the administrator that this is NOT a "Catholic" web-site at all, but rather a "Byzantine" web-site meant equally for Catholics and Orthodox. In light of this, the inverse of what you say is true as well. For someone to state that Communion with Rome is "absolutely necessary" shows AT LEAST as much disrespect for the faith and ecclesiolgocial position of the Orthodox on this thread. Yet it was stated quite clearly that those who are not holding the "absolutely necessary" Communion with Rome are thereby being unfaithful to the truth. And you reprimand the other poster?  (who -by the way- was an Eastern Catholic). I think you are often much more willing to bend over backwards to accomadate those more sympathetic to the Latin position. Why is this? I want to see both sides treated fairly... So quit taking the Latin-Side!!!   :p
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Dear Ray, You are a gentleman and a scholar. (That's the first time I ever said that and rather meant it)  . I greatly appreciate your input on this forum. Best of all your humility equals your intelligence. Thank you for your kind words and understanding, brother. Ghazar
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Dear Brother Ghazar, Forgive me for my ignorance regarding the purpose of this website. Thank you for the heads up. As you know, I have been praying about whether or not to join the Catholic Communion. So your puzzlement at my "bending over backwards" should not be that shocking.  HOWEVER, having having said that, I do not think I am taking the "Latin" side at all. I have always and only ever proposed, regarding the papacy, "appellate jurisdiction." BUT, this is NOT the "Latin" position, though I have all hope it may one day yet be. So I am certainly not taking a specifically "Latin" stance in this respect.  With regards to the apparent insult from Father Stephanos. I believe Father Stephanos to be an examplary Eastern Catholic priest. I cannot believe that he would say anything purposefully inciteful or insulting to his Orthodox brethren. Thus, when he initially responded to Athanasius, I completely regarded his statement as referring to Catholics, for, indeed, to Catholics, the determination of Truth is specifically aligned to the papacy. I do not believe Father Stephanos is unaware that this is not the case with the Orthodox. Thus, his statement could only be referring to Catholics. I only await vindication from Father Stephanos. However, since you, my brother Ghazar, has seen fit to interpret it in another manner that is insulting to Orthodox, I humbly admit that it may be construed in that manner (though I maintain that this was never Father Stephanos' intention). Peace.  Finally, when you wrote that I was rebuking an Eastern Catholic, were you referring to Athanasius? I assumed that when he was chrismated in the Orthodox Church, this meant that he is no longer in the Catholic Communion. Perhaps I misinterpreted him. Blessings, Marduk
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Brother Marduk, Two quick points and then I have to take my lovely wife and children out for dinner. 1. I didn't name any names. But since you have, if Fr. Stephanos clarifies that he only referred to members of the Catholic Communion, then I will withdraw my objection and apologize. 2. Athanasius' profile states he is "Greek Catholic" so I took this to be correct. Upon re-reading his post, I see he is Orthodox. Then Fr. Stephanos' words were directly addressed to an Orthodox Christian. Which gets us back to point #1. Thanks for your thoughtful reply, May God bless you on your journey to understand His truth (the same one we are all on).
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