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HALKI SEMINARY

Turkey strikes positive note on reopening Orthodox school

The issue of the reopening of the Orthodox seminary on Halki, off Istanbul, �will be resolved within the framework of the constitution and the law,� Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said yesterday after Turkey�s Justice Minister Huseyin Celik remarked that �it is wrong for (the seminary) to stay closed.� Greece�s government spokesman Theodoros Roussopoulos was cool in his response, noting that reopening the seminary �is Turkey�s obligation, as set out in the road map (for eventual EU accession).�

www.ekathimerini.com [ekathimerini.com]

Dear Alice,
As always, there are a few cards up the Turkish sleeve. One option is to reopen the seminary on the same terms as before - which, given the drastic fall in the Greek population of Turkey since the seminary was closed would mean that the seminary, while nominally "open", would be unable to have either faculty or students. The government will then point out to the EU that it is senseless to have a seminary if no qualified candidate from the country in question wishes to study in the institution.
Turkey denies, formally, that the Ecumenical Patriarchate has any status outside Turkey, which makes it difficult to assert that there is a right to have the seminary open for the education of non-Turks.
Then there is the ever-present possibility of the Turks taking the "Turkish Orthodox Church" out of the deep freezer and giving it Halki. That pseudo-church still exists, complete with "patriarch" - it just doesn't hold any religious services.
If you think that when it comes to the Turks I am a shameful cynic with no confidence in them whatever, you are quite right.

Incognitus

Dear Incognitus,

I couldn't agree with you more. Turkey is full of double speak, and a leopard does not change its spots. Thanks for your post.

Respectfully,
in our Lord,
Alice

Dear Alice...

"Spot remover" would be in order, then? :p

Gaudior, who thinks Turkey is a wonderful country...except for the fanatical inhabitants

Turkey is in a very uncomfortable position. It has never been very smart in the way it handles its christian minorities.Its Ataturkist foundation have held Islamist extremism at bay,but.The number of Islamic extremists is growing .The Military which is still strongly secularist. In the model of the founder of the Turkish Republic Kemal Ataturk .Is the major safeguard against them.
It would be great for the Turkish govt. to reopen the Seminary. For any Orthodox from any where and to finaly recognise that the Patriarch has an Internationaly recognized position. Membership in the EU is getting very chancy all kinds of deals are in the news,but.Anything other than full membership may be unacceptable to Turkey.

Dear Gaudior - make it Turk Remover. Put down, O Lord, the impious Hagarenes and restore the reign of the Christian Kings.

Incognitus

Dear JohnnyJ you said:

"Turkey is in a very uncomfortable position. It has never been very smart in the way it handles its christian minorities."

I say:

You know that it has committed genocide on the Armenians and Greeks and is demanding that France remove it's recognition of the Armenian genocide? Wasn't it Adolph Hitler that said when exterminating the Jews: "Who today remembers the Armenians?"

Turkey had always been threatened by the indigenous Christians and fearful that they will want to form their own nation... But genocide?

You said:

"Its Ataturkist foundation have held Islamist extremism at bay,but.The number of Islamic extremists is growing."

I say:

Actually had it remained a Muslim rather than a secular nation, the genocides of Christians would not have occurred. The Muslims do not really persecute their minorities, as long as they remain a minority.

You said:

"The Military which is still strongly secularist. In the model of the founder of the Turkish Republic Kemal Ataturk .Is the major safeguard against them."

I say:

It is a military democracy, which can be very threatening to the nations around it. Remember, they occupied 1/3 of Cyprus, and brought in Turks from the mainland to inhabit the homes of the Greek Cypriots that left...out of fear of course.

They allowed the agriculture and animals in Cyprus to perish, as they did in Asia Minor when they kicked out the Greek majority, and instead raised poppies for heroin. Also, their jets fly over the Greek islands and wait for the Greek jets to chase them away.

The problem has always been the Aegean Sea. They want certain rights over area's that they are not entitled to.

You said:

"It would be great for the Turkish govt. to reopen the Seminary. For any Orthodox from any where and to finaly recognise that the Patriarch has an Internationaly recognized position. Membership in the EU is getting very chancy all kinds of deals are in the news,but.Anything other than full membership may be unacceptable to Turkey."

I say:

That is the problem. Turkey will be the greatest burden on the E.U. economically and most of the nations do not want her as a member, yet Turkey is always setting the terms. She demanded that Christianity not be mentioned as a basis for European civilization. Now isn't there something wrong there?

As for Greece, she invited Turkey in because she feels that better a Turkey in the E.U. where she will be under certain laws, than one that is constantly threatening her. Also Greece financially supports the Ecumenical Patriarch in Turkey...and believe me she pays quite a bit to keep him there.

Yet knowing Turkey and her mentality, I can't help but feel that she will never do what is expected of her. As an example, she refuses to recognize Cyprus, and yet Cyprus is a member of the E.U.

How can a country enter the E.U., and yet not recognize a country that is a member of it?

Zenovia

Bravo Zenovia!

RE : Zenovia
A very good exposition .Didn't the last Sultan /Caliph of the Ottoman Empire. Murder The Patriarch of constantinople at the begining of the 20th century ?
The Armenian Genocide was an abomination and Turkey should just admit what happened and take her lumps like Germany did.Cyprus is a very sticky question and both sides need to admit their part in the problem.
It is regretable that the Ecumeniacl Patriarchate is often a hostage to Greek / Turkish relations.

Dear JohnnyJ you said:

"Didn't the last Sultan /Caliph of the Ottoman Empire. Murder The Patriarch of constantinople at the begining of the 20th century ?"

I say:

I really don't know. I do know that they hung the Patriarch at the town square when Greece started it's revolution about 1822. Patriarch Bartolomew better be careful. Maybe it's better if he takes a lot of trips.

You said:

"The Armenian Genocide was an abomination and Turkey should just admit what happened and take her lumps like Germany did."

The fear I guess is that the Armenians might want compensation, although it's been so many years. In Cyprus though, it's another story. One woman did bring it to the European court, and Turkey was told to pay up. They didn't of course! I guess if they did, they would have to pay all the Cypriots.

Then there are the Greeks, (and they were quite wealthy), that were forced to leave during the pogroms of the 1960's. Actually I believe Greece is hoping that if Turkey joins the EU, the people that left Istanbul and fled to Greece (pennyless of course), would be compensated.

You said:

"Cyprus is a very sticky question and both sides need to admit their part in the problem."

I say:

The problem is that when the Greek Cypriots fled for their lives, Turkey filled up the area with Turks from the mainland. Their children are now Cypriots and they want their section to unite with the rest of Cyprus which is exceptionally wealthy. They on the other hand, live in poverty.

You know we are to blame. Cyprus belonged to England and was promised to Greece after WW I. Then Winston Churchill promised that it would be given to Greece after WW II. He was voted out of power at the end of the war. The new English government then decided that Cyprus was too stragegic to be given Greece when it was in the midst of a civil war.

Instead Cyprus was given independance and as it's usual custom, England helped it prosper so that it would not want to unite with a poorer Greece. When the president of Cyprus felt it was in their best interest to remove the American air base, and the Greeks were battling a dictatorship, Turkey found it's opportunity. It invaded Cyprus with Henry Kissinger's blessing. Turkey was told by Kissinger to halt after 1/3 of the island was occupied. The wealthier part of course.

Henry Kissinger then told Greece and the Cypriots that Turkey could not afford to keep it's troops on the island and in time they'll leave. They're still there.

It just happened, that whatever funds and military arms congress kept from Turkey, was then given to Germany and from Germany they were being sent to Turkey. Mind you, the money paid by us indirectly to Turkey, was equal to what it cost Turkey to keep it's troops on Cyprus. Turkey has a very strong lobby you know.

Well that was the end of Henry Kissinger's political career. He was shown on the camera's smiling when President Ford mentioned how Turkey was our long time ally. (Never was!) Later on it was figured that the amount of money that the Republican party lacked in the presidential elections giving Carter the election, was exactly the amount held back by the Greek American voters in this country. Just thought you'd be interested.

You know there is a Turkish writer being tried in Turkey for denigrating his country because he mentioned the past Turkish attrocities. Europe is up in arms about the lack of freedom in the press ...Let's see what happens.

Zenovia