www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Further Catholic-Orthodox relations

I apologize for my ignorance on my own Holy Father, but I was curious to see what some of the members of the Forum think will happen now that Benedict XVI is the Bishop of Rome. He does indicate that dialogue is beneficial at this time--any takers on how he may be different in approach than John Paul II was on Catholic-Orthodox relations?

I may be wrong, but it looks as if he will be more agressive, and more willing to consider the Orthodox point of view...Pray God that such willingness is met by an equal willingness on the part of certain Orthodox Patriarchs...

Gaudior, who also will be watching this aspect of the papacy!

He may very well want to do something to fulfill John Paul's greatest wish, to heal the schism. And now that John Paul the Great is in a better position to assist , it might just happen!

I think anyone who underestimates Benedict makes a serious mistake. I expect great things from him on a number of fronts. He seems to me to be quite serious on the matter of Catholic/Orthodox relations. I am also expecting a renewed emphasis on Tradition in the Latin Church from him.

Moscow

It shall never forgive Rome for its recent siding (under John Paul) with all those Eastern European national churches whose property had been taken from them at gun point of Communism and given over to the ROC of Moscow ownership - were returned to their original owners and nationalities.

You can follow all this in the records of the UN and the World Court.

The Hierarchy of the Russian Orthodox church of Moscow needs to first reconcile itself with Christ for 70 years of unholy alliance with Communism. Russian priest who refused to cooperate with this unholy alliance - died in gulags.

Eastern European ethnic and national churches - priest and parishioners who tried to protect their churches - died on the steps - shoot by Communist soldiers as their churches and property were confiscated to new ownership of the Russian Orthodox Church of Moscow.

That is what the visions of Fatima were all about� not the encroachment of Communism in the world � but the encroachment of Communism in the Church located in Russia.

All other Orthodox churches have, in recent years, issued joint letters of reconciliation with Rome - except - Moscow - who refused John Paul to the end.

And much of the reconciliation of the Orthodox churches - can be directly attributed to John Paul�s effort to have their property and national identities - returned to themselves.

I call a spade - a spade.

Moscow alone stands in the way to obstruct any further reconciliation. Moscow should be ignored.

Cheers
-ray

Dear Ray:

I must admit that it is (for lack of a better term) nice to hear that a Roman Catholic such as yourself sees matters this way.

Of course, you are in good company with Fr. Robert Taft, who was quoted in a recent interview to have said "to hell with Moscow."

Whether Pope Benedict XVI agrees with that sentiment remains to be seen.

Some people say that the Church of Rome is the modern-day remnant of the Roman Empire. IMHO, I think that description is far more applicable to the MP with respect to the now-dissolved Russian Empire.

Yours,

hal (risking another attack by that insensitive as....., I mean, member who finds my views to be that of a Ukrainian "nationalist")

Hal,

Such lack of charity is unacceptable for anyone who calls himself a Christian.

You have two choices:

1) Apologize and withdraw your insult against another Christian

2) Take an enforced 30 day time out and then apologize and withdraw

If you do not post an apology and withdraw your insult on this thread before posting elsewhere on this Forum I will consider your choice to be #2 and will suspend your posting privileges. You may then contact me after 30 days to request your privileges back so that you may post an apology.

Administrator

I have been harsh in referring to Patriarch Alexey on this board before, and I will try to refrain from doing so in the future. Russia/the USSR has long stuck its nose in the business of its neighbors, and some are learning at a slower pace that it must end.

JPII's efforts in reaching out to many Orthodox will, in time, "bear fruit that lasts". I suspect that one reason Alexey would not receive JPII is beacuse Alexey did not want a Pole to show him up. JMHO

Rather than pin blame on any one person or church -
we need to forgive each other, listen to each other and pray.

I think Russia has become a scapegoat for all this accusation. Remember that Russia also suffered for 70 years under the Bolsheviks. I think people (Americans and western Europeans in particular) have to start making a distinction between "Russian" and "Soviet."

And while it's true that Russia has long stuck her nose in the business of her neighbours, I have similar sentiments (coming from a Ruthenian background with a strongly Russophilic inclination) toward Poland during the 16th and 17th centuries and Austria-Hungary during the 18th through early 20th centuries. There are two sides to every story and I think it's unfair to heap all the blame on the Russians.

This is another problem in Orthodoxy. I'm including Byzantine Catholics here as well, because of all the "cradle Byzantines" I've met, they generally seem to have a certain nationalist bent that parallels or is antagonistic to that of certain Orthodox groups. We are often so nationalistic that we lose sight of what really matters--our faith.

Amen.

The Russian Orthodox Church cannot and should not be ignored. It is one of the largest if not the largest Orthodox Patriarchates. I do not approve of many of the actions of his Holiness, Alexei but the Church of Russia cannot seriously be ignored in Catholic-Orthodox relations. The HIstory of the Church of Russia under the Soviet State is VERY complicated and cannot be reduced to black and white.

Administrator:

Let me save you the trouble. I withdraw now.

So - take your best shot. Impose the Byzantine Forum Death Penalty, oh Great One!

I'm gone! Out of here!

This Forum ain't big enough for both P------ and me!

hal

I don't agree. While the world is full of nations that have gone to war with their neighbors, brutalizing them, subjugating them and partitioning them, it must be pointed out that while millions of ordinary Orthodox Christian Russians suffered terribly under the Communist dictatorship, it was Russians who installed the Bolshevik dictatorship and then ran it for over 70 years. No doubt that Poland lorded it over her neighbors from time to time in centuries past, but nobody comes close to the Soviet empire.

Poland has long looked to the West and considered herself a Western nation. Russia's nationaly psyche is much different. Rahter than argue about who did what to who in decades or centuries past, it would be far better for all Slavs, Orthodox and Catholic, to forgive each other the sins of the past and become friends and fellow followers of the Lord.