www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News From Ireland.....

I am leaving the forums. All blessings. There are some blessed and wonderful folk, but some spoil it. Be blessed. Please take my name etc off?

Jennifer dear...Sister knows of what she speaks...believe me. The important thing, as always---is to be merciful to others (especially in our judgments) as Christ is merciful to us. We need to be Gospel-people...and LIVE it...and stop just making an idol out of our Churches. Ya know? It's a dangerous temptation we all have---to make a 'false god' out of our Churches...instead of deepening our love and relationship with HIM using the Church for that relationship. (Just my poor personal thoughts) We need to put 'flesh' on our words and on our prayers by LIVING them in action after they're spoken? Ya know? Too much talk from all of us and not enough action! The prayers and the spiritual conversation is good, but it MUST be followed up with LIVING it out in ACTION...if we don't do that (relying on His grace) then we are simply Pharisees...and He will deny that He even knows us.

May God help us all!

In His Holy Name,
+Father Gregory

{{Father}} I wrote my reply to Jennifer on her new thread before I read this. We think alike. To worship the Church or to worship IN the Church.....few see or know that. Maybe is why the Church is in a bad way... Bless you this night.

Dear Irish Anchoress,

I am sorry that you are thinking of leaving. I sense a real Christ centered humility in your posts. I don't think that you have attacked anyone. I agree that a certain poster has been VERY abrupt and confrontational to others and to you. That happens sometimes when one opens themselves up like you have. I am sorry to see anyone hurt you.

God bless you,
please remember me in your holy prayers,
Alice

I would like to ask - from those of you willing to respond, and who have posted in very dramatic terms on this subject - for a clarification:

Are garments being rent over the very suggestion itself, or is it ONLY that the suggestion came from a Bishop?

I think a number of you just voted without outcry and in come cases with great enthusiasm, for presidential/vice presidential candidates who espouse civil unions for homosexuals - a status far more sdweeping the the limited legal niceties suggested by the Bishop.

What gives?

DJS asked:
I would like to ask - from those of you willing to respond, and who have posted in very dramatic terms on this subject - for a clarification:

Are garments being rent over the very suggestion itself, or is it ONLY that the suggestion came from a Bishop?

Over the situation itself. The fact that a bishop makes the statement only makes it worse. Kerry was one thing, and it was wrong, but a bishop is to uphold the very Word of God. Kerry being a politician and a Catholic, knows better also. It is sad becasue the of coals that he is heaping upon his soul. Also, as a bishop or leader, the coals grow even deeper since they are leading the flock of Christ.

I love the individuals that are in this situation, but I do not condone the lifestyle and never have. I have never been afraid to speak the truth to someone that is involved in that lifestyle. I do it in love with compassion. I do not desire to have the coals heaped upon my soul, any more than I desire for their souls to parrish because of their actions.

I am a sinner, just like everyone else, I try to correct my own sins and listen to the guidance of the brothers and sisters God has placed around me. I have to be willing to be repentant myself. If no one ever speaks the truth to me when I am doing wrong and I don't realize it, then I may never have the opportunity to repent.

Jesus says to be transformed by his Word, not conformed to the world. GOD'S HOLY WORD IS BEING INGNORED! That my dear brother is what is happening by anyone who says the homosexual lifestyle is ok or should be blessed.

Pani Rose

I have some problems with some of the comments you posted. You state that one Irish bishop "got the sack; look up Bishop Buckley." There is only one Roman Catholic bishop in Ireland with the surname Buckley: Bishop John Buckley of Cork and Ross who has been bishop of that diocese since 1997 and a bishop since 1984. He did not get the sack. If this is the person to whom you are referring, I respectfully request that you withdraw your comments.

If you are referring to "Bishop" Pat Buckley, please know that he is not now, nor has he ever been, a Roman Catholic bishop. There is a webpage which provides information about his supposed ordination as a bishop: http://jloughnan.tripod.com/thucbish.htm

You also state, in reference to gay unions, that "those rituals are empty or probably Satanic now." While we know that marriage is between a man and a woman, with respect I believe that your terming gay unions as "probably Satanic" is a bit much.

Finally, you refer to gays as "poor things." Human beings are not "things". I find it incredible that a vowed religious would employ such dehumanizing language for anyone, since we are all sons and daughters of God.

I wish you God`s peace.

Charles

Amen, Charles!

It is for Our Lord and a Spiritual Father to judge the state of a soul!

But Rose, I was referring to Buch and Cheney who both, in no uncertain terms endorsed, civil unions for homosexual couples.

I Corinthians 6:9-11 Do not err; neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor the EFFEMINATE, nor SODOMITES, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor the evil-tongued, nor the greedy will possess the kingdom of God.

Dear Charles,

Any thought and action that is not within our Lord's Grace, is definitely out of Grace, and therefore satanic. If one is not led by the Holy Spirit in his thoughts and actions, he is led by another spirit...A 'spirit' of dissension.

Civil unions may be acceptable politically for reasons of compassion, such as having one's partner make hospital visits, etc., but it will also make insurance rates rise...tremendously.

Gay marriages, on the other hand, is not a marriage in any terms, and therefore should not be called as such. It destroys the sanctity of the home, and frankly, has never been considered as such, in all of our five-thousand plus years of civilization.

To accept and practice a life style that is definitely outside of Christian teachings does not mean that we should lack compassion for the sinner. What we should never do though, is give that which is unacceptable, the pretense of acceptability and by doing so; respectability.

Christianity is a faith where we must accept our sinful actions, as being such. Not doing so, means that we are not accepting the very reason our Lord sent us His Son. Jesus was sent to suffer for our redemption. Without acceptance of ourselves as sinners, and repenting, how can we be 'redeemed'. Therefore our Lord's suffering on the Cross becomes meaningless.

Zenovia

Not to put too fine a point on it, but Jennifer is quite correct to question Irish Anchoress. Verification of facts, as opposed to hearsay and opinion is vital to both journalists and lawyers, and should be to the rest of us.

We all know that someone has made statements that are slanderous, or, as this is technically print, libelous in character. Those people have had our Admins and mods jump on them with both feet, and were told that they could retract, or be banned, if no supporting evidence was forthcoming.

When Jennifer joined, she made some sweeping statements, and was promptly told by all and sundry to preface themn with "in my opinion" or something clearly differentiating between the two.

She is correct to verify statements before responding to them. Irish Anchoress need not feel that asking her to name sources of information is impolite. Being vowed in the True Church does not convey infallibility, as she is aware, and asking for verification is not a reason to pout, and complain that some people are spoiling the forum, and leave. Statements should be verified, if questioned.

I think that we would be guilty of judging Jennifer's comment should we automatically assume there was malice in it.

Gaudior, being just

Dear Charles,

Any thought and action that is not within our Lord's Grace, is definitely out of Grace, and therefore satanic. If one is not led by the Holy Spirit in his thoughts and actions, he is led by another spirit...A 'spirit' of dissension.

Civil unions may be acceptable politically for reasons of compassion, such as having one's partner make hospital visits, etc., but it will also make insurance rates rise...tremendously.

Zenovia [/QB][/QUOTE]

Dear Zenovia,

With respect, I must disagree with you when you state that "Any thought and action that is not within our Lord's Grace, is definitely out of Grace, and therefore satanic." Life is not black and white and neither is God. I don`t see human actions as being either God-centered or satanic. Actions can be moral, immoral, or amoral. I don`t equate an immoral act as ipso facto a satanic act. I think that you give too much credit to Satan. An action which is objectively sinful can be, for this or that person, not sinful, subjectively, due to that person`s imperfect understanding of the sinful nature of the act.

As for your comment on the results of civil unions "but it will also make insurance rates rise...tremendously", please advise what studies or other documentation you have to support your statement.

Take care and God bless,

Charles

Just a question for the legal minds, for my own information. I understand the arguments for civil unions such as inheritance, insurance beneficiaries, powers of attorney in serious illness, etc. Isn't it possible to draw up legal documentation to guarantee all those rights without the civil unions? I would think it would be, but I am not a lawyer and wonder if this is correct.