www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Why Not Married Priests? The Case for Clerical Celibacy

Alex:

Awhile back when this topic was discussed, there was a wonderful link that explained the theology of the Eastern Church in relation to monasticism and married life. I beleive that it also tied the idea of married clergy into it.

Do you remember it? If so, can you provide the link? I lost the link when I transferred my data onto my new computer.

In Christ,

BOB

Since you come from a long line of priests, you hold a doctorate, and live in Canada have you ever considered becoming a priest?

I love to hear those stories you tell about your family!!!

Regarding Mr Johnston's citation of St Paul's admonition to the Corinthian's, it must be remembered that the context has nothing to do with qualifications for clerics. IMOHO, the Corinthians must have had such a ill conceived notion of marriage that Paul counsels them not to marry. In the Pastoral Epistles, St Paul does enumerate qualifications for bishops and deacons- they should be married.

Great point, Father Deacon John! In fact, St. Paul cites the witness of their family life as evidence of a vocation to pastoral leadership within the "household" of faith - the Church! The Latins have changed the tradition, not us...which is why they need to incessantly justify an exclusive policy of celibate priesthood.

I am new to this discussion, but I remember someone who told me (RCC) that as he understood it, the RCC doctrine of celebate only priests was a crucial part of the 'counter-reformation', thought, the practice was common before that, there were ecclesiastical/political reasons for enforcing the extreme. Not knowing the exact particulars I cannot know if this is right....any takers..??? Thanks, Mik

..........Ouch, if you are BC then I applaud you for the stand. This is why as Orthodox I have a sweet spot for the "Vostokniks"..those who are in communion with Rome, BUT have NOT completely left their former (even if not by 3+ centuries...!!) Orthodox Tradition. My personal opinion is that we could have a much sooner dialogue with Byz/Greek Catholics than much of the Latin/Romans, who seem to want to re-write their own history to suit some present day claims. S Bohom, Mikhailo 50% East/50% West (Rusyn-German)

Dear Mike,

Thanks for appreciating my position, there are few enough orthodox-minded traditionalists in this Byzantine Catholic Church!

The liberals and latinizers seem to hold all the cards, and seem to be supported by friends in the highest of places.

But, we hang in there, and won't go away quietly. Perhaps someday, we will have a voice in the Church, and someone in authority will decide, just once, to listen to us, instead of always bowing to pressure from the feminists, revisionists, liturgical innovators and reductionists.

I suppose we're a minority, and not well organized. So words of support and encouragement from our orthodox brothers (and sisters!) is always much appreciated.

Nick

Dear Nicholas,

I dont' think we traditionalists are such a minority anymore. Look what happened when the "new and improved Liturgy" was released. Plenty of people stepped up to the plate, and hopefully that nonesense is over. In fact I think the Liturgical Revisionists helped get people thinking about the future of the church. I know it scared me! For that we can be grateful, and maybe formally organizing is a good idea!

Dear Cathy,

Well, at least, we traditionalists won't be a silent minority. Even if the bishops refuse to listen, I refuse to be silent. Maybe organizing is possible?

You know what gives me courage? Have you been reading Benedict XVI? I think he understands.

JPII may be JP the Great, but if he had one terrible flaw, it is that he appointed thousands of weak and spineless bishops, who lack anything resembling a 'vision' for the Church, and are without the intellect needed to understand the Churches problems, and without the courage necessary to lead the Church as it seeks to solve them. I think he may have appointed weak bishops on purpose! (...to strengthen the central authority of the Church in Rome, bishops without backbones would suit that plan.) But the Catholic Church is in the deep trouble, exactly because of that strategy.

JPII was very holy, even inspirational. But I don't think he was as bright as Benedict XVI, and maybe, please God, just maybe, Benedict will realize how important leadership is in the Churches, and he will take more care to empower leaders.

In the Eastern Churches, isn't it the bishops who are supposed to defend the tradition and teach the faith? But if they won't be the real guardians of the Tradition, and they decide to dilute, water down, change and dissipate the tradition, someone else better be willing to speak for it!

So, in the meantime, defenders of tradition, unite!

Nick

Even though I'm still feeling hurt about the post ghost that took away my question about pronounciation of Ukrainian...

The argument that a priest can't take care of a parish and a family doesn't hold water.
Why then is it alright for a doctor to have a family, after all she can get called out at 3 in the morning as well and work many hours.
My lawyer works insane hours, away from his family.
I know finanical advisors that work 60 hour weeks, sometimes well into the night.
My neighbor works at the factory swing shift. He is gone a lot, and gets stuck overtime.
My dad worked away all week when I was a kid.
My point is, many people work crazy hours, most people work crazy hours.
Work has to be taken home, so instead of getting to play a board game with the kids, mom or dad has to spend time doing work at home in the evening.
Lots of people have hard jobs and families.

The practice may be common, but it still isn't a doctrine - just a simple discipline, easy enough to retract in canon (although possibly more difficult in practice). What I find to be most objectionable is the practice of some Eastern Churches to aquiesce to this Latin discipline. The Syro-Malabar Church hasn't ordained a married man since the 1600s, the Syro-Malankara Church hasn't since its early decades (except for the reception of a handful of convert priests decades ago). I find this especially troubling - why won't the bishops ask for what is rightfully theirs?

Dear Bob,

Sorry! I don't remember that link!

Alex the useless

Dear Rev. Fr. Deacon John,

Actually, I believe St Paul's admonition about being a "man of one wife" had nothing to do with "should be married" but only to safeguard against ordaining or consecrating men who have had more than one wife (were divorced etc.).

That's how the Rudder explains it . . .

When our new Eparch was consecrated, at the banquet, one of our priests got up and quoted that passage from St Paul.

He then looked at the bishops assembled at the head table and said, "And where are your wives, Vladyky?"

(Are you having a happy new year so far? ).

Alex

Dear Dr Eric,

When my wife was my fiancee, her family, a priest's family at that, laid down the "condition" that hinged on whether they would give me permission to marry their daughter.

That condition was that I NEVER consider priestly ordination - or else permission would be summarily denied.

Priestly families in our community hold a certain status.

Sometimes, it is entirely undeserved, in my view . . .

Alex

Dear Michael,

There are also problems that married priests and their families face that sometimes the Church just doesn't want to address.

While at a theological conference once, some presbyteras came up and accosted some high-ranking priests to tell them about their issues . . .

One said that the position of presbytera is tenuous at best and should she become a widow, she is effectively ejected from the parish residence as she is no longer a presbytera etc. What does she do then? And similar issues.

I know of certain married priests who just can't make a living as priests and go to find a 9-5 weekly job, resuming their role as full-time pastors on the weekend and in the evenings . . .

One priest I know recently "had enough" and went to teacher's college.

There are also women in EC communities with a tradition of married priests who would REFUSE to marry anyone who so much as thought about getting ordained for more than five minutes.

I know, I've been there.

When I graduated from our Ukie school, the principal announced that I was thinking about becoming a priest . . .

Afterwards, during the high school dance, EVERY girl refused to have anything to do with me.

And even the girl I came to the dance with, left me soon after and I went home without even saying good-bye to her etc.

What a disaster to remember . . .

My grandmother, wise presbytera that she was, got me to order roses to send her the next day - I didn't want to, but you didn't say "no" to grandmother.

She also strongly suggested that I write a note of thanks to her for accompanying me to the graduation dance.

I told her I would do her a pretty note, to be sure . . . but after I finished writing it, my grandmother, who was looking over my shoulder, took it from me and tore it up.

She then mightily urged me to do yet another note, somewhat nicer, this time . . .

I made a face as if I had swallowed bad-tasting cough syrup and did as my grandmother encouragingly advised . . .

The next day, I received a call from that girl who was all "sweetness" on the phone. She had never received such flowers from anyone before and did everything but say, "Alex, get over here right now!"

I never called her again (so deep was the hurt experienced by my fragile emotions . . . sniff . . .).

But I can still see the figure of my grandmother standing nearby, beaming with a smile from ear to ear, as if to say, "I told you so!"

She was too nice to ever actually say that to me though . . .

Alex