www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Archbishop Christodoulos Weighs In

Dear Krsto you said:

I say:

It all depends on what you consider the 'Truth'. Please explain yourself? As for me I consider the 'Truth' our Lord Jesus Christ. All who follow our Lord take part in the Truth as revealed by God, although some 'paths' to that revealed 'Truth' might be more full and complete, and some less complete.

The talks between the RCC and Orthodox are not to fully develop those 'Truths' which have already been developed, but rather to give deeper explanations for those 'Truths', which as yet have not been explained fully.

The way I see the problem is that the RCC, having a certain authority among it's followers, merely states certain positions and they are automatically accepted. Others though, that are not under direct authority of the Pope, question those positions and require some greater explanations.

As an example, I quoted in one of my posts certain revalations by Saint Gregory Palamas about our Theotokos. I had also read the same revelations by an RCC saint, yet had I not read St. Gregory Palamas, I would not have accepted those revealed by the RCC saint, simply because they were not as explanatory and therefore seemed to be over emphasizing our Theotokos' position in salvation.

By the same account, all the dogma's within the RCC must be explained more fully in order to be accepted by those not under the direct authority of the Pope.

You said:

I say:

Yet we must judge the tree by the fruit it bears. By my observations, I have seen love not only in Pope John Paul II, who humbled himself to everyone for the sake of humanity, but in those little Evangelical women that sacrifice all for the unfortunate others. Also if there is so much love between the Orthodox, why do we have so many divisions...and bitter one's at that? Maybe something is missing...such as the first among equals?

I just want to give you a few things to ponder...in love of course. I am Orthodox you know.

Zenovia

I've been thinking about this for some time.
As much of a theologian and scholar Pope Benedict XVI is, why would he not have consulted the Eastern Churches before dropping this title?

You'd think that would be the ultimate of ecumenical dialogue.

I wonder if his Beatitude Christodoulos will receive a reply.

Brad.

Well, for what it's worth, this old Greek Orthodox layman is thoroughly dismayed by the Pope's abandonment of his ancient title. It seems to me and the few other of my brethern who are aware of this here in Pittsburgh that this is a step backwards, a refining of the Papacy's vision of itself and something that ignores the Orthodox's waiting for the return of Orthodoxy to the west (or so we maintain). Please pardon my blunt remarks, but there is so little that the Pope can do that will not be second-guessed to pieces for hidden agenda and a clearer reason given for this change could have helped allay these notions.
It does not surprise me that the Archbishop of Athens would write, and write well, on this issue; the latent rivalry between the Churches of Greece and Constantinople is still evident.

Dear Nestor you said:

I say:

Just to let the readers of your post know, both the Church of Greece and the Patriarchate are supported by the Greek government. Seems though, that one political party takes the position of the Patriarch in regard to Turkey, and the other party takes Arch. Christodoulos' position.

I'm curious to know if Pope Benedict XVI decided to affirm his position as the 'First Among Equals' by eliminating the Patriarch of the West title. Well then again, the Patriarch of Constantinople is called the 'Ecumenical Patriarch'.

Actually, maybe it's because the title Patriarch of the West will have no meaning if there is unity, since there will be Eastern rites that are not under the Pope in the West, as well as there will be Latin rites in the East.

Zenovia

True on financial support (thus far)as well as support from Hellas for Jerusalem and Alexandria, Zenovia, but that does not obviate the latent competition between these churches as shown in last year's tiff over the northern Greek dioceses. Thankfully that dispute was resolved.

I'm afraid the read around here was that the Pope's change here is an attempt to distance the office from the traditional equality among bishops - a sort of re-iteration of the supremacy thing. But I'll allow your conjection as also logically possible.