www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Feast of Nativity confused with Feast of St. Nicholas?

Merry Christmas one and all,

I was wondering if the people in the West or western Christians have commingled the Feast of St. Nicholas with that of the Feast of the Nativity. As I ponder on the name of Santa Claus which is derived from St. Nicholas, I get the feeling that this great Saint is not properly venerated on the appointed feast day of the calendar but rather on Dec. 25. In addition, the image of St. Nicholas is not properly portrayed but rather that of a red, fat, white-bearded, joyful old man. Perhaps I am reading to much into this but I sense amongst the secularized Christians.
I recently was involved in a petty argument with a Roman Catholic that believes in reinforcing the belief in a mythical Santa Claus for the sake of children rather than emphasizing the Word becoming flesh. Do the Roman Catholics or western Christians celebrate St. Nicholas with Nativity Feast? Shouldn't children be told the truth about the acts of charitable giving at the time of the Nativity rather giving credit to a Santa Claus? I understand St. Nicholas to be a patron saint of children as well as adults when it comes to asking for his intercessions. Somehow I sense the Nativity is deemphasized & blurred by santa clauses and snowmen & gifts.
Also, has anyone ever thougth of proclaiming words such as "Christ is born! Glorify Him!" rather than mere "Merry Christmas". Many people, secularized Christians & non-Christians, tend to say "Merry Christmas" without understanding the very substance of the words. Even the word, "holiday", rather than holy day. Whose holiday, that of the secularized world or that of God Incarnate?! Am I the only one experiencing the holy day of the Nativity versus the holiday of Santa Claus?! Anyone care to reply?

Rum,
Speaking very personally, I find myself in agreement with you. Yes there is commingling. As children if we were lucky the story of St Nicholas was explained, and his gifts, and we were told that they were put into the house by way of the chimney so he was not observed in this act of charity. From there of course, children were told that if they were good, Santa Claus would come down their chimney and leave presents for them . Later if children asked about Santa Claus the explanation was that if you say St Nicholas very quickly and repeat it many times it eventually comes out as Santa Claus. Then of course the image of the fat jovial old man was built up - Christmas is a time of joy after all - but the emphasis was on the present giving aspect NOT the Birth of Christ.

Here in our Parish[ again I am speaking as a Roman Catholic ] we are reminded very much that Christmas Day is a Holyday of Obligation - mind you whether that fact sinks in to 50% of the Parish or not I have no idea - sadly probably not. Actually I have just looked in my Sunday Missal and seen that it is shown as Christmas Day - Vigil Mass, Mass at Midnight, Mass at Dawn and Mass during the Day.That was a suprise, as my copy of the Liturgical Calendar does indeed show it as the Feast of the Nativity of Our Lord.

Sadly this discussion is similar to one a while back [last month] when we commented about the importance/secularisation of the great Feasts of the Church and which was the greatest.

Having said that -- "A very happy Christmas"

May the Blessings of the Christ Child be upon you and those whom you love.

Angela

[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: Our Lady's slave of love ]

[ 12-24-2001: Message edited by: Our Lady's slave of love ]

Hi Rum Catholic,

RumC:I was wondering if the people in the West or western Christians have commingled the Feast of St. Nicholas with that of the Feast of the Nativity

Tom: No I doubt it. Most Catholic's aren't informed enough to be confused. My comments are restricted to the U.S.A. Catholic's but I doubt if 5% could even tell you he lived in Myra or was a bishop.

RumC:In addition, the image of St. Nicholas is not properly portrayed but rather that of a red, fat, white-bearded, joyful old man. Perhaps I am reading to much into this but I sense amongst the secularized Christians.

Tom: This is straight commercialism. It appears to me that pagan secularism is doing to Christianity what we did to them in the 3&4th centuries. Secular society is adapting christian Holy days an turning them into non-christian holidays, with no religious intent attached to it.

Rum C:. Do the Roman Catholics or western Christians celebrate St. Nicholas with Nativity Feast?

Tom: No infact, its worse than that I find the whole season is being shifted. If anything the "christmas season" is now from about Nov28 to Dec 26. Of course I live in Baptist country and they as a general rule have no concept of liturgical calanders. My family is about the only one around that has an advent wreath and keeps their tree & lights up thru the feast of epiphany.It has become a great tools to teach folks, because they simply don't know. Society I think is begining to think that the twelve days of Christmas start 12 days before Christmas! I read somewhere that the biggest day for going to the movies is on Christmas day. Sad isn't it.

RumC:I recently was involved in a petty argument with a Roman Catholic that believes in reinforcing the belief in a mythical Santa Claus for the sake of children rather than emphasizing the Word becoming flesh

Tom: Well if this was the choice,I'd side with you. But I think one can do both.

However look at St. Valentines day has lost all it's religious idea it's more about lust then love. St. Patrick's day is a drunk feast. We have Fat Tuesday now instead of Ash Wednesday. All Hollow's Eve is now a celebration of the dead. Feast of the Presentation of the Lord is Groundhog day. I'm sure as time goes on more an more secular reasons to celebrate will replace Christian Holy days. Easter is of course is starting to be replaced by the rabbit.

Frankly though I think all of this is a good thing. It will force Christians to stand up in society and be different that the mass of people. Half the Catholic's I know don't take off for Good Friday. I guess if the state doesn't give them off for the Holy day then it not worth taking off.

There is a concerted effort to not only separate church & state which I think is a good thing, but as a direct result of this is implied an effort to suppress any forum of religious expression in public at all!

Blessings on the wonder& joyous gift of the Incarnation

Tom

CHRISTOS ROZDAJETSJA!
SLAVITE JEHO!

The celebration of St. Nicholas Day by Roman Catholics often depends on the family's ethnic background. Those with roots in Eastern Europe and Holland and Germany will usually celebrate the Feast as this is a MAJOR Feast day in their home countries.

Other Roman Catholics will not be as observant.

Roman Catholics with Hispanic roots do not celebrate St.Nicholas Day but put the gift giving emphasis on the Feast of Epiphany with the Three Kings bringing the gifts.

Roman Catholics of Italian ancestry have La Bofana who brings the gifts to children instead of Santa Claus and she's usually depicted as being a witch.....

just my thoughts....

the least servant of the servants of God....

mark