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Hallo,

In Byzantine tradition we fold our arms in x forms across our chest to receive Eucharist, while in Latin we do such gesture in order to tell the priest that we just want to receive blessing, not the Eucharist. Can somebody tell me about the difference?
Is it true that the x gesture used to be a praying gesture in the past (by early Christians)?

Thanx & God bless.

We present ourselves to Christ as his servents and hand maids with our arms crossed. Canon CI from the Quinisext Council (692) states that �if anyone wishes to be a participator of the immaculate Body in the time of the Synaxis, and to offer himself for the communion, let him draw near, arranging his hands in the form of a cross� St. John of Damascus in De Fide Orthodoxa urges us to �draw near to it with an ardent desire, and with our hands held in the form of the cross, let us receive the body of the Crucified One.

Hope this helps, I am sure there is much more to it.
Pani Rose

You mean the St. Andrew's cross (x), right? How to do that properly? I saw on the net, people crossing their hands touching their own shoulders.

Thanx.

Hi Simeon

Yes Saint Andrew's Cross -X

Cross your forarms so they cross over your heart. Say with your wrists crossing at your heart, or how you are comfortable. We dont grab our shoulders so to speak, but I have seen that before. It is something that may depend on the paritcualr rite.

Pani Rose

As a youngster I remember being taught that this position of reverence also serves a more practical purpose... it keeps the hands from inadvertantly bumping the Holy Spoon (not a concern for our Latin brethren)

Al (a pilgrim)

A pilgrim posted:
> As a youngster I remember being taught that this
> position of reverence also serves a more
> practical purpose... it keeps the hands from
> inadvertantly bumping the Holy Spoon ...

Methinks that is an after-the-fact explanation both because the normal position of prayer, with our hands at our sides, would do, and because the 6th Ecumenical Council (quoted in a previous post) mandated the crossing, and I don't believr the communion spoon had been invented then and, even if I'm wrong about that, the Council doesn't mention it as the purpose.

Photius

Dear Photius,

Is it proper for Orthodox Christians to remain standing in Church for all the services with their hands in the X position?

I think the Old Believers do this . . .

Alex

Dr Alex

As someone who frequently attends Divine Liturgy in a Ukrainian Rite Church, I've been puzzled by how it seems that almost half the people remain standing after receiving Holy Communion, while the other half kneels. One parishoner told me the kneelers were those who were more Latinized, which made sense since the church is fairly Latinized. Yet, I saw the same thing at a decidedly un-Latinized Ukrainian Rite Church.

The following was posted by Orthodox Catholic:
> Is it proper for Orthodox Christians to remain
> standing in Church for all the services with
> their hands in the X position?

> I think the Old Believers do this . . .

Dear Alex,
I've certainly heard of that custom, but I've never seen it. I'm used to crossing my arms while waiting for Communion, and if I'm not serving in the Altar or on the Cliros, I go to the front of the line to venerate the icons, since I'm vested, so this may be for some while; also, if it doesn't get in way of serving, I keep my arms there until the end of the post Communion prayers.

I've seen that done likewise in the Greek Church.

As for the Old Rite, I don't know. I had fully intended to go to the parish in Erie when passing through there a couple of years ago, but there was an unavoidable delay and I missed the vigil and, extremely anxious to get home to Florida, I impiously drove through the night entirely skipping Liturgy Sunday morning, so I've yet to be at an Old Rite Service. For what it's worth, I studied pre-Nikonian books and munuscripts as a student, but unfortunately, as the obnoxious teenager I was, I was obsessively horrivied about the spelling errors and, in the manuscripts, obvious transcription errors that indicated a lack of literacy in the copyist.

Photius

Photius,

You are no doubt correct, my friend. While the explanation I offered may have had nothing to do with the decrees of the 6th Ecumenical Council, it did have EVERYTHING to do with the decrees of the three Benedictine nuns who would sternly, with rulers in hand poised to strike at a moment's notice, herd us off to Divine Liturgy before school in the morning!

Believe me, my friend, I wasn't about to be the one to tell them they were wrong!!


Ahhhh... sweet memories of my youth...

Al (a pilgrim)

How come same/similar gesture like crossing hands before communion have different meaning in Latin and Byzantine rite?

I don't think many Latins are even sure what their traditions are. Some are from the past, but some have been made-up in recent years by liturgists. The people in the pews don't know the difference.

Dear Lawrence,

Yes, that happens in my parish too, although the preference is for standing.

The Ukies need to get their act together, but if one is used to kneeling, then one will do it.

St Basil Velichkovsky, the New Hieromartyr, who received Orthodox into communion with Rome in Volyn in Ukraine, wrote that he sternly warned the new converts not to kneel so as not to allow for the charge of "Latinization."

He found that he could do nothing in this regard, but that the new converts from Orthodox insisted on kneeling as often as possible . . .

Alex

Dear Lawrence,

Yes, that happens in my parish too, although the preference is for standing.

The Ukies need to get their act together, but if one is used to kneeling, then one will do it.

St Basil Velichkovsky, the New Hieromartyr, who received Orthodox into communion with Rome in Volyn in Ukraine, wrote that he sternly warned the new converts not to kneel so as not to allow for the charge of "Latinization."

He found that he could do nothing in this regard, but that the new converts from Orthodox insisted on kneeling as often as possible . . .

Alex

Dear Friends,

First of all, sorry for the double post above - but some things do bear repeating . . .

I remember when I approached Communion in an RC Church and put my hands cross-wise.

At that, the priest smiled at me, and then blessed me with the Sign of the Cross, touching me on the forehead, chest and shoulders, and then went to the next communicant.

I walked back to my pew rather non-plussed.

It was then that the meaning of this tradition in the Latin Church was explained to me . . .

Who would have thunk?

Alex