www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Change to the Blue Army of Fatima

In 1946 during a gathering of youth at Fatima, Sister Lucia was asked by a young Russian girl how the conversion of Russia would come about. She stated that the conversion of Russia would come through the Orthodox Church and "the Oriental rite", meaning the Byzantine Catholic Church. This statement does not appear to be generally known.

How prophetic that Sister Lucia would state in 1946 that the Byzantine Catholic Church would play a role in the conversion of Russia, since it was in that same year that the Ukrainian Catholic Church was officially declared "liquidated" by the Soviets and to have "united" with the Russian Orthodox Church.

Are we not seeing that conversion right now with the emergence of the Ukrainian Catholic Church after four decades of Soviet persecution?

While the "conversion of Russia" does not mean an abandonment of the Byzantine tradition for "conversion" to Roman-rite Catholicism, many believe that it does imply a reunion/reconciliation between the Catholic Church and the Russian Orthodox Church.

Sister Lucia was asked why it was necessary for the Pope to consecrate Russia. She replied that the Pope is the head of the Church and the visible sign of unity.

I find it very significant that the Theotokos asked the consecration of a predominantly Orthodox country to be enacted by the Pope of Rome and not by the Patriarch of Moscow.

Griego,

Thanks for that story. I had not heard that before.

The Russian people are some of the most devoted to the Theotokos. Her concern for her children is unabated!

Certainly it can be said that Our Lady's heart desires Christian unity almost as much as her Son. For that to be accomplished, conversion must be a mutual process.

I agree with you - there could be some significance to those two events in 1946. (It would not be unheard of - the dates surrounding the prophecies of Fatima have always been interesting...) The oppression of the people and theft of property of the Greek Catholic faithful in Ukraine parallels some of the persecution of the Chinese Latin Catholics and the move to "nationalize" their church. Those who are faithful to Rome are certainly a target of communist authorities. That is not to say that those who are not in communion with Rome do not suffer martyrdom at the hands of the authorities also. The MP was made a pawn of Stalin and the Soviets during that dreadful episode...perhaps under duress (I should like to think they did not take delight in such actions against their brother Christians).

In the economy of grace, even the greatest of sins can be transformed by mercy into the seeds of conversion. Perhaps through this liquidation and other oppressive actions, the Soviets sewed the seeds of their own destruction many years later. Such an unnatural and immoral human system cannot exist forever!

Here are a few websites that may on Fatima (including one that describe what was said during the Third Appartion which mentions Russia specifically):

http://www.marypages.com/fatimaEng.htm

http://www.catholicmatch.com/pl/pages/community/articles/details.html?id=258

http://www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/approved/appariti/fatima.html

http://www.ewtn.com/fatima/children/index.htm

God bless!

Gordo

Here is a website with information on Fatima from our very own Alex!

http://www.unicorne.org/ORTHODOXY/automne2004/fatima.htm

Again, I see Christian unity as a matter for mutual conversion.

Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us all!

Gordo

Dear Gordo,

Actually, much of what I said in the above article comes from discussions I had with our Administrator!

He's a great fellow, always ready to even give you the shirt off his back (I won the "Byzantine T-shirt" he offered yesterday! ).

I've also read of some Orthodox Marian apparitions where the Theotokos tells the seers that the world will be converted to Orthodoxy . . .

Perhaps our earthly ecclesial divisions really DON'T reach up as high as Heaven after all!

Alex

A hair shirt would be more appropriate Alex.

Alex,

Hasn't the Blue Army always had "The World Apostolate of Fatima" in its name? It seems from their website they simply flipped the names so that now The World Apostolate of Fatima is first and in larger letters, The Blue Army smaller whereas previously it had been the reverse.

I think they are good group. Our Lady at Fatima simply said Russia will be converted not that they would become Latin Catholics which I think the Blue Army stands by as opposed to the Fatima Crusader organization which does not have Church approval.


Also the Pittsburgh Archeparchy has a division. Theya re always at Otpust. The Contact is: Dorothy Kolenich 330-369-1590

Fr. Deacon Lance

Dear Father Deacon,

Yes, they have - but they've now formally gotten rid of the title "Blue Army" as of November of last year AND their organization has been formally elevated by the Pope to the status of a "Catholic association of the laity" - something they were not before, requiring them to add or change a few of their requirements for membership - I don't know exactly what these are.

I received a SOUL magazine in the mail asking me to sign my membership into the new World Apostolate of Fatima and explaining the dropping of "Blue Army."

It is unfortunate that there are those "Fatimists" who use the devotion to promote quite anti-Orthodox and pre-Vatican II sentiments that are truly offensive to Orthodox and all Catholics seeking unity with one another.

In terms of the conversion of Russia, I think this is underway and the ROC is doing a better job of it in post-Soviet Russia than we are in post-Christian North America.

Alex

Now I've read that Pius XII also consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and Sister Lucia said it wasn't enough, that Russia had to be mentioned specifically. John Paul II repeated the same consecration that Pius XII performed and Sister Lucia said that Heaven accepted this consecration.

Dear Pavel,

If I ever want to join the ranks of the Opus Dei, I'll revisit the hair shirt issue!

(I heard that Opus Dei is having a real run of new memberships, thanks to Dan Brown's "Code!")

Alex

Dear Dr Eric,

(Great pics of you and your family, BTW!)

The problem with the consecration is that it doesn't exactly reflect the spirit of Catholic-Orthodox rapprochement now, does it?

There are also Fatimist groups who say the Pope John Paul's consecration fell short as well and they don't care what Sister Lucia said - implying she was "forced" approve it etc.

The fact is that the West cannot teach the East ANYTHING when it comes to Marian devotion. We too have our apparitions etc. but ours is a much more liturgically-focused veneration of the Mother of God.

It permeates all of our liturgical services and offices, so much so, that our Church is truly the "Church of the Most Holy Theotokos."

And I wonder how the West would have fared if IT was under Soviet atheistic communism for as long as many Eastern countries were . . .

Alex

I'm really wondering if the apparitions at Fatima have really been blown out of proportion.

Dr. Eric

Former apparition chaser.

Dear Dr Eric,

Yes, I've met people who truly are "chasers" of such things - including one priest who has since grown out of it.

I knew a woman who wore a large Benedictine Crucifix and who tried to convince people that it bled and also that a picture of the Shroud of Turin she had turned red as well.

The thing is, her entire spiritual conversation revolved around such "apparitions" as if their acceptance was necessary to faith etc.

And they are not - and it is up to the Church to decide such things.

Apparitions do not always have to be positive things.

We know that miracles involving Holy Communion, and there are many of those, actually express the Divine displeasure at a lack of faith and respect for the Holy Eucharist!

And St Louis the King of France heard TWO Masses daily in his royal chapel.

One day, after returning from his second Mass to his room, an attendant ran to see him and said, "Your Majesty, come quickly to the Chapel - our Lord has appeared on the Altar!"

"Then you go to see Him," the King said. "I have already seen Him twice this morning!"

The King did not go - because he wanted to be a man who lived by faith.

And I know of what seems to be a completely valid apparition of Our Lady at a Church in Ontario - I've seen the evidence which is quite compelling, but the Church has not/may not ever pronounce on it.

Instead, that Church has instituted processions with an image of the Virgin Mary that appeared in the event and has left it at that.

That the Mother of God is directly involved in our affairs and works miracles regularly - of that no one should ever have any doubt at any time!

Alex

Being that I live in the Archdiocese of St. Louis, I appreciate hearing that story again.

I stopped chasing these things after I learned more about Medjugorie.

There are those in my town that insist that Medjugorie is Gospel Truth. Unfortunately they are the ones who also try the hardest to be orthodox. They question a person's orthodoxy by which apparition he/she chooses to believe in. Others in the town are cafeteria Catholics or C&E Catholics. So I'm stuck in the middle at odds with both camps. I even was chased out of teaching apologetics and theology to teen-agers who desperately needed it by one of these apparition chasers.

You have a visionary too huh? We also have one as I wrote above. No more apparitions for me please.

Essentially I would think so, not that that there won't always be something more that could be done within the church or society as a whole.

I would think if there is any place these days that is in need of "conversion" it would be among the likes of France, the Netherlands or Spain.

Andrew

Alex,

Where can I get me one of those Byzan-Tee's!?!?

My favorite tee-shirt saying of late:

"The Hokey Pokey: What if that's what it's all about?"

Gordo