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Ghezar,

What I'd really like to know is something perhaps none of us are privy to, nor may ever be. When can we hope for both to sit down and begin hammering out the differences? I do believe that there is a strong difference between the way the West views the authority of the Pope as it has developed and the East's view. When will the two sit down and hammer out those differences?

Dan L

Ghazar:

I am saddened that you have chosen to separate yourself from full communion with Rome. It hurts whenever I read a fellow Catholic is no longer in full communion with us. I hope and pray that you would one day reconsider, and I say this with sincerety and love.

God bless,

Rony

Dear Chaldean Catholic:

I'm sorry my decision saddened you and I thank you for your message of sympathy and concern. I know you write this out of sincerity. Yet there are others on this very forum who will be most happy for me. There are some fellow Orthodox (not all) who will see this as an affirmation that Rome is a heretical Church. There are Roman Catholics on this forum who have been telling me for some time that I can't believe what I believe and remain in Communion with Rome. They too will be happy to see I finally agreed with them. In reality, I can't make everybody happy. The "Communion with Rome" which would make you happy, necessitates division with Etchmiadzeen, our historic Orthodox Mother Church. Either way is sad. Bottom line for me is that I believe I can be much more faithful to the historic faith of the Armenian Church by being in Communion with the Armenian Orthodox in my area rather than with Armenian Catholics. I think this is very much akin to Rome telling the Macedonian Orthodox to stay where they are rather than restoring communion with Rome. Based on this, Rome herself recognizes, there is a place for being Orthodox and working for unity from that standpoint (as many Orthodox on this site are doing). I respect that there is a place for Eastern Catholics who work for this as well. Don't you worry, I remain very close to Catholics especially Eastern Catholics. In fact the Melkite Bishop Nicholas Samra was at our Armenian Orthodox Church for the feast of the Nativity and Theophany (Jan. 6th) and on the following Lord's Day, delivered a powerful homily at this same Church during the Holy Badarak (Divine Liturgy).

Dear Brother Dan,

I think a certain impatience with disunity (which you exhibit) is healthy. If more had it, perhaps things would progress a little quicker. I share this desire with you to see our Churches finally hammer out the differences. I think this process has already begun. It is just going to take some time. From the perspective of the Armenian Church's relations with Rome, we are talking about a division that took place 14 centuries ago. And yet if we compare the relationship between the two Churches now to that of a century ago, the difference is extraordinary. Much has been accomplished in the last fifty years. Therefore I have hope.

Trusting in Christ's Light,
Wm. DerGhazarian
Looys Kreesdosee
www.geocities.com/derghazar [geocities.com]

Dan,

Here's something that you may find encouraging:

http://www.ec-patr.gr/deltiotypou/engdisplay.php?id=5&cat=minimata&lang=1

Bill,

My prayerful best wishes to you, my brother, on your decision to become one with the Ancient See of Etchmiadzin. I cannot be sad that you have left us, because I don't believe that is what you've done. Instead, I think you've gone to another place among us; a place from which, as you suggest, we may reach toward one another and close the circle sooner rather than later.

God grant you many years,

Neil

Dear Neil,

It is people like you that make this life worth living. Christ's love speaks through you. Thank you for making the effort to understand what is in my heart.

your brother in Christ's Light,
Bill

p.s. Sorry to Dan for deviating from your theme. I hope we get back to it as it is an important question. And Dan, its "Ghazar" not "Ghezar." Being only 33, I'm not old enough to be called a "Ghezar" yet.

Yikes,

I'm the Geezer here. Sorry Ghazar. My typing isn't as good as it was so long long ago when I first learned.

Dan Lauffer

You are right - Rome does.

Rome does not consider any Orthodox Church to be any less of a church than Rome is herself. To be a member of the Orthodox Church is to be fully united to Christ through theology and sacraments and priesthood. Others may pretend to speak for Rome or pretend to identify �conspiracy� but Rome speaks for herself if one cares to go to herself to listen.

What a particular person may do with his unity with Christ - is up to him alone due to personal free will.

The unity of the Churches is voluntary and you take that unity with you in your heart. I can see that.

As a Roman Catholic it matter not one bit to me which particular church of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church - you are with. Worrying if someone else is in the �best� one is an empty occupation - something to occupy one brain (like playing solitaire) - if one has nothing more important to consider.

Holiness is not a test of intellect (figuring things out and being �right�) but a test of conscience within the day by day events which Providence arranges for us. The Church is not an end nor a guarantee - it is an aide as we face these moments of conscience day to day.

I am happy that you have withdrawn from brain arguments and have recognized that for you, the Armenian Orthodox Church is where Providence would like you to be. The Good Lord has taken great care to give you a place of rest. I can see that for you - holiness is a matter of heart and conscience - first. There is no greater peace than the peace of conscience which the world can not give.

Please remember and pray for the rest of us.

Are you sure it's not 'Ghezer'?

To Chaldean Catholic: Ghezar is entirely safe if he (and he will) stays close to the mind of the Orthodox ecclesia and clergy. There are still pockets of laity and a few clergy who define themselves by 'not Rome' but more and more Orthodox self identiy in the West is being realized within the Orthodox Churches. As it should be and as the Good God intends. May the Orthodox grow vibrant and may we feollow Catholic also be feed from her streams.

There are two ways to convert. One is a "getting away from" a defining oneself by being better than the erros of others. The other is a conversion by wanting to be something. The first way condenms soneone else and unity is disrupted. The second way condemns no one but is an answer to a calling where the a particular plant may grow better - and unity is not disrupted. The 'beads' may change but the spirit of unity remains.

-ray

A booboo post

Ghazar,

It also is terribly saddening to me that you've decided to cut communion with Rome and the Armenian Catholic Church. Nonetheless, I think now you'll be a lot less confused and cut down on the "doublespeak," as it were. I'm glad you have found a Church in which you truly feel at home. I'm sorry it's not the Catholic Church. All the best wishes for you and your family in your new parish!!

Logos Teen

Dear Ray,

Thank you also. Your words echo not only what is in my heart but obviously what is in yours, for "from the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks" or so our dear Lord tells us.


Dear Logos Teen:

Thanks for your words of understanding. Actually I still do feel very much at home amongst Catholics. In fact, I don't see my move as divisive but rather uniting. My wife is still Catholic. We share equal time with the local Melkite parish and my children are enrolled in Eastern Christian Catechism classes there. As I read in a document put out by the Catholic bishops in the U.S., in our marriage we seek to manifest the longed for unity between Catholics and Orthodox. Of course, only time will tell if this is going to be a success or failure. With God's help, I trust, it will be a success.

Dear Djs,

Thanks for sharing that wonderful quote from the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. It manifests he still has a heart for unity. I pray this will become more contaigious amongst all our Church leaders. Let us pray their successors carry on the work begun forty years ago.

Trusting in Christ's Light,
Wm. DerGhazarian
Looys Kreesdosee
www.geocities.com/derghazar [geocities.com]

Without trying to provoke a firestorm of criticism, and speaking strictly from a Latin perspective, I don't see union between Rome and the East happening any time soon. Concessions made to the East regarding the limits of Papal authority would immediately open a virtual pandora's box of new problems within the Latin Church. Relegating the Pope to a position of first among equals (this is a Latin perspective only) to satisfy the Orthodox, would very quickly be used as a precedent in the West to politely reject the magisterium's teachings on any number of subjects. I think the Vatican is well aware of this, and for this reason we will continue to see the current state of relations remain as they are.

Brother Lawrence,

Well, I don't have my crystal ball with me today but I have already said that I have confidence the reunion will not take place in my lifetime. And this is the only time-frame I have any earthly care about. What happens after this will only affect me in a very secondary way. I simply rejoice in the progress which has taken place in the last forty years. And I welcome further progress which Rome, via the Pope, has declared itself committed to. Any predictions beyond this is pure speculation by us all. We'd have more chance predicting who will win Super Bowl XL.

Trusting in Christ's Light,
Wm. DerGhazarian
Looys Kreesdosee
www.geocities.com/derghazar [geocities.com]

Dear Ghazar,

Nice post. Sincerely, you are a scholar and a gentlemen.

I long for East-West unity. At one level it is a reality now. Every baptized person is a brother or a sister in Christ. I think that fits within the definition of the communion of saints.

In heaven all the Church triumphant will be there. St. Peter won't be checking for your particular church ID at the pearly gates!

Best wishes for 2004.

Paul