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At the Ukie Cath DL the priest and the altar boys touch the ground several times during the liturgy. What is the history of this ? Is there much difference between the Ukie Cath DL and the UO DL ?

Of the three DL I have been to Greek Orth, BC Ruth-Carp, and Ukie Cath DL I like the Ukie the best so far.

Any links out there so I can see a Melkite DL, a Maronite DL, and Assyrian (Orth or Cath) DL, I would like to see a Russ Orth DL too.

Oh, another question. Does Pope Shanodu (please forgive the spelling) have jurisdiction over all Coptic/Oriental Orth ? It seems he is a bit different than the other Orth. patriarchs.

Dear leoxpiusx,

This is called the "metanoia" or "bow from the waist" (as opposed to the "prostration" that involves touching the forehead to the ground).

One makes the Sign of the Cross, going to the right shoulder first (the way all Christians, including Latin, used to do it) and then to the left.

As one releases the hand from the left, one continue to take it down until the hand touches the floor, and our backs are at a 90 degree angle as we bow forward.

Normally, when making the Sign of the Cross, Byzantine Christians end it with the release of the hand and bow at the "Amen."

There are established rules in place about when, during the Divine Liturgy, we are to: bow without crossing ourselves, Cross and bow, Cross and make a prostration etc.

Alex

I was actually taught a different way to do a metanoia. The bow and touching the ground is first, and then the sign of the cross is made. Is that a Greek thing?

Andrew

Dear Andrew,

And I was taught to beware Greeks . . . especially when they come bearing gifts . . .

I believe the way you were taught is correct for other contexts (?)

Alex

Dear leoxpiusx,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Permit me to expand on some of the fine postings on this subject.

The Greek word metanoia literally means "change of mind" or "change of heart." St. John the Baptist�s words were "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!". This was taken up by Christ as His first words of public ministry. It was also the subject of His last words at the Ascension.

Repentance, that is to recognize our failure and make resolution to do better next time, is not once and for all, but what becomes as natural and repetitive in our daily lives as breathing.

The Divine Liturgy symbolizes this reality by simple gesture, "metanoia". Unlike the Roman Catholics who genuflect when they enter church or about to take their place in pew, we "make a metany". We bow down low and then, rising, make Sign of the Cross.

The Fathers teach us that this represents time and again when we are brought low by our sins and failures, but raised up again each and every time by Holy Trinity, through the Cross of Our Lord God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

At our Presanctified Liturgy during the Great Fast this is replaced by "the great metanoia," which is a full prostration to the floor. This is a more complete way of using the liturgical gesture which symbolizes our dying to self�including our sins� and then rising again thru the loving power of Christ.

The act of bowing is a well-known prayer gesture in the Muslim world. Mohammed was profoundly impressed by devotion of Christian monks who spent night and day in prostrations and prayer. Unlike the Muslims, the main point of a prostration for Christians is not to show obedience and honor to God by being on floor. It is in fact to get up again, giving honor to God for His great love in raising us up time and time again, despite our failings, and in end, raising us up from sin's greatest effect, death.

Hope this helps,

Deacon El

Properly speaking Roman Catholics perform a genuflection when they are in front of or facing the Tabernacle if the Sanctuary Lamp is lit to indicate that the reserved consecrated Host is present.

Otherwise the proscribed posture is a profound bow to the altar.

While genuflection has become distressingly rote and often misunderstood the genuflection is not properly done to anything other than the presence of Christ. So it should not be routinely performed upon entering the church or before entering the pew unless the Tabernacle:

A - Is actually located in the church

and

B - Contains the reserved Body of Christ

Dear Carole,

As I understand it, one genuflects on the right knee before God and Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist, but on the left knee before people.

I believe it was taken from the medieval rite of the act of loyalty to one's sovereign or lord.

Alex

That may be the case - I don't know as I've never knelt before a person.

But I just wanted to clarify that the reason for the genuflection was not (or should not be) simply a rote mechanical movement but a sign of reverence for the presence of Christ reserved in the Tabernacle.

If the Host is exposed for Eucharistic Adoration and Benediction then the proper posture is a full genuflection on both knees.

But in no case should a Roman Catholic perform a genuflection if there is no Host in residence either in the Tabernacle or on the altar. The proper posture then is a profound bow to the altar but no genuflection.

Dear Carole,

Well, I'VE genuflected (on my left knee) before my Sovereign, Queen Elizabeth II!

And I have a colour photograph to prove it!

So there!

Alex

I'm one of those fiesty upstarts so no kneeling for me! hehehehe

By the way you spelled color wrong!

(Actually I don't think you did - but my fellow Americans might!)

Dear Carole:

And "fiesty" by you!

Amado

(Another feisty upstart! )

Dear Carole,

I've a question for you.

During the American Revolution, which country gave the most soldiers to help Britain fight the patriots?

Give up?

It was . . . America itself - the United Empire Loyalists, who later founded Canada!

We also use The Queen's English so . . ."colour" it is . . . ah, the splendour of it . . .

And we say "Lef-tenant" rather than "Loo-tenant."

I always thought a "loo-tenant" was someone who rented a bathroom . . .

Alex

That is too, too, too funny

I know. My mom was born and raised in Toronto. All of my maternal relatives live in Ontario (most near Ottawa).

And I spell colour, honour, favour, etc. with the "extra" u, too. Can't help it. Mom taught me to read and spell using Canadian and British published books before I went to school.

I was just messin' with you!

And on the "feisty"... I claim it as a typo!

Dear Carole:

I know it was a "typo" or, on my part, I would claim it pronto as just a "slip of the finger" when I misspell (another "trap" word ) like all others.

It was a convenient alibi for interjecting myself into the good ribbing between you and Alex!

Amado