www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Question for Melkites and Eastern Catholics.

I am a member at another forum. At this forum the following question was asked, however there are very few people over at these forums able to answer, I hope that some here may be able to answer these questions. Here is the link

http://www.christianforums.com/t2472551-question-for-melkites-and-eastern-catholics.html

and here is the question


Question for Melkites and Eastern Catholics


Inspired by Andrew (Rilian) and my own experience with the Melkite Church, I'd like to discuss some things openly with our Eastern Catholic friends. I would prefer if those born into these rites would respond, or at least those who have been in the rite for a long time.

How do you view the relationship of your Church with Rome? One of the things that I've said strikes me about the Eastern Catholics is that they pray "for the Pope in Rome" as opposed to saying "Our holy father Benedict". In a subtle way it seems to me like this expresses a certain distance from the Pope. Do you feel a difference between the Pope's relationship to your church and that of the Roman Rite? It seems to me that the Melkites look to Archbishop Cyril and the Patriarch as their father in the way we look to the Pope as our father, and then they see the Pope as being a friend and brother of the Patriarch. This was only my perception and not necessarily the fact of the matter. I would like to get the thoughts of those who are trully Eastern Catholic.

Also, do you believe that Rome meddles unnecessarily in the ordinary governance of your church? For example, it has come to my attention that Rome must approve the consecration of your bishops before they can be elevated. Does this bother you? Are there other actions taken by Rome which you find overbearing or dominating?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Shlomo,

You asked: "[B}How do you view the relationship of your Church with Rome?[/B]"

I view our Church's relationship with Rome as that of sisters.

You state: "One of the things that I've said strikes me about the Eastern Catholics is that they pray "for the Pope in Rome" as opposed to saying "Our holy father Benedict".

There are two reasons that for that. First, is a flipant reason. There are two Popes, there is also the one in Alexandria . The more serious reason is that the Pope is not[B/] the Father of Our Churches. Our Fathers are our Patriarchs. It is only through them that we are in communion with the Church of Rome, and the Pope. We as individuals can not be in communion with the Pope, since he is not our Patriarch.

This is not a distancing of ourselves from the Pope, but a recognition of the structure of the Church and our relationship to that structure.

You go on to state: "[B]t seems to me that the Melkites look to Archbishop Cyril and the Patriarch as their father in the way we look to the Pope as our father, and then they see the Pope as being a friend and brother of the Patriarch."

That is exactly the way it is. That is why Patriarchs now seek communion with the Pope not confermation.

You also have asked the following: do you believe that Rome meddles unnecessarily in the ordinary governance of your church?

Yes. I hope that the Church of Rome will follow through with the words of John Paul the Great in that:

a [I]conversion is also required of the Latin Church, that she may respect and fully appreciate the dignity of Eastern Christians and accept gratefully the spiritual treasures of which the Eastern Catholic Churches are the bearers, to the benefit of the entire catholic communion;[60] that she may show concretely, far more than in the past, how much she esteems and admires the Christian East and how essential she considers its contribution to the full realization of the Church's universality.

On a personal note. The Latin (Roman), Maronite, Melkite, etc are Churches not rites. Please that to heart the following from EWTN.

[B]RITES

A Rite represents an ecclesiastical tradition about how the sacraments are to be celebrated. Each of the sacraments have as their core an essential nature which must be satisfied for the sacrament to be confected or realized. This essence of matter, form and intention derives from the divinely revealed nature of the particular sacrament and, thus, is not changeable by the Church. Scripture and Sacred Tradition, as interpreted by the Magisterium, tells us what is essential in each of the sacraments. When the apostles brought the gospel to the major cultural centers of their day the essential practices of the faith were inculturated in them, the essential was clothed in the symbols and trappings which conveyed the desired spiritual meaning to that culture. This included the sacraments. There are three major groupings of Rites based on this initial transmission of the faith, the Roman, the Antiochian (Syria) and the Alexandrian (Egypt). Later on the Byzantine derived as a major Group of Rites from the Antiochian, under the influence of the St. Basil and St. John Chrysostom. From these four derive the over 20 liturgical Rites present in the Church today.



CHURCHES

A Church is the assembly of the faithful, hierarchically ordered, both in the entire world (Catholic Church) or in a certain territory (particular Church). To be a sacrament (sign) of the Mystical Body of Christ in the world a Church must have both head and members. The sacramental sign of Christ the Head of the Mystical Body is the sacred hierarchy, the bishops, priests and deacons. More specifically, it is the bishop, with his priests and deacons gathered around and assisting him in his office of teaching, sanctifying and governing. The sacramental sign of the Mystical Body is the laity, the flock of Christ. Thus the Church of Christ is fully present sacramentally (by way of a sign) wherever there is a chief shepherd (a bishop and those who assist him) and Christian people entrusted to his care. The Diocese of Birmingham, for example, is a particular Church.

The Church of Christ is also fully present sacramentally in ritual Churches that represent an ecclesiastical tradition of celebrating the sacraments and which are organized under a Patriarch, who together with the bishops and other clergy of that ritual Church represent Christ the head to the people of that tradition. In some cases a Rite is completely coincident with a Church. For example, the Maronite Church under their Patriarch has a Rite not found in any other Church. In other cases, such as the Byzantine Rite, several Churches use the same or very similar liturgical Rite. For example, the Ukrainian Catholic Church uses the Byzantine Rite, but this Rite is also found in other Catholic Churches, as well as the Eastern Orthodox Churches not in union with Rome.

Finally, the Church of Christ is sacramentally present in the Catholic (universal) Church spread over the entire world and united to the Supreme Pastor of Christ's Church, the Bishop of Rome. To be Catholic, particular Churches and ritual Churches must be in communion with the Successor of St. Peter, just as the other apostles were in communion with him in establishing Churches in areas which they evangelized.[/B}

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

Yuhannon,

Your replies give me hope and comfort! Thank you!

Dear Friend,

The issue of how the Pope of Rome is commemorated was discussed on one or two other threads, but I'll give what I believe the gist of it all is.

The UGCC and other EC Churches commemorate the Pope of Rome in this way: For the Most Holy Ecumenical Pontiff, Benedict, Pope of Rome etc.

In a study by Fr. Serge Keleher, I believe, it has been shown that this way of commemorating the Pope is related to the way the Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople was formerly commemorated when we were in communion with him, prior to the Union of Brest.

In fact, Rome does not itself recognize the title "Ecumenical" for the Pope of Rome nor does it accept the "Most Holy" title since this is also a title of the EP.

We have essentially kept the titles of the EP while substituting the name of the Pope of Rome.

And we commemorate the Pope of Rome a total of four times in our Liturgy and five if you count the "Many Years" or "Ad Multos Annos" singing afterwards.

In fact, as in other things, we UGCC'ers are more Catholic and papalist than Roman Catholics - whom we often put to shame with our many exuberant commemorations of the Pope and with our Latin traditions that many RC parishes no longer have.

As for closeness to Rome, Roman Catholics should be so close as we!

As for meddling in our church affairs, this has been going on for so long that many of us have given up paying attention.

Alex

Funny stuff!
But true, many times the Holy Father Pope Benedict is mentioned in the Divine Liturgy. I have only been a few times, due to distance, but I can attest that the Eastern Catholics do pray for and venerate the Holy Father. It seems that the Ukrainian Church that I attend has VERY warm affection for John Paul II. They have many pictures and things in the parish hall that commemorate his visit to Ukraine. It seems that the Divine Liturgy is very close to the Good Friday Liturgy in the Novus Ordo.

PS Someday I hope to have as many posts as you, Orthodox Catholic!